Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List - October 2001
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Our deepest thanks to Maxou Heintzen for this fabulous photograph, taken at Saint-Cloud near Paris in 1957 by an unknown photographer.
The following are the archives of the Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List, sponsored by Alden and Cali Hackmann of Olympic Musical Instruments.
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Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 08:39:55 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: [HG] Hardware: ball bearings and lubricant
--- Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com> wrote:
> The head and tail bearings are Delrin.
In my opinion Nylon is better than Derlin for lot of
reasons (just one: a well made Nylon bearing lasts
forever and never take play).
Of course it's not so easy to work on....
> In addition to the (not very) self lubricating
> bearings I also use a quarter inch ball bearing. I
> had
> a hard time finding this one.
Just because you're not a cyclist! :o)
Every good bicycle shop have lot of excellent ball
bearings in several dimentions: the best are called
"25 grade" but "100" or "200" grade balls are more
than enough for HGs (because you don't sit OVER your
gurdy, I hope :o)
>The inside or "head" end on the
> shaft
> gets a smear of bearing grease (available at any
> automotive).
Again... bicycle grease is better because it's not so
"hard".
Other good lubricant is a heavy, ever lasting
"everythink proof" oil called "Phil Wood Tenacious
Oil" (of course, it's an American bicycle oil...)
Don't put these grease or oil in wooden bearings.....
Ciao
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 09:48:13 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hardware: ball bearings and lubricant
I do not know who wrote:
I also use a quarter inch ball bearing.
ball bearings are o.k. as long as you do not want to amplyfy the gurdy,
they share a lot of noise with the soundboard, which you get into your
pickups.
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 11:49:52 -0500
From: Patricia A. Lipscomb <plipscomb _at_ qwest.net>
Subject: [HG] beginners' playing group
To any Seattle-area beginners who would like to get together to play -
We need a roster, which I'll start with my name & info:
Trish Lipscomb
1007 - 14th Ave. East
Seattle, WA 98112
(206) 726-1409
Anyone who's interested in getting together, please add your name, #,
etc.
Then we can come up with a schedule for getting together. I am happy to
make my house available since I have a big empty studio space that would
be very suitable.
Trish
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 13:10:20 -0700
From: Diana O'Neill <dianamark _at_ foxinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] beginners' playing group
Diana O'Neill
7544 34th Ave S.W.
Seattle,Wa. 98126
(206) 938-0931
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Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 01:33:24 -0700
From: Joan L. D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ uswest.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] beginners' playing group
Hi Trish and Diana. You can add Pat and I to the list. Pat's only problem
is students some evenings.
SOOOOOO
Joan L. D'Andrea
Pat Nelson
3831 Bagley Ave. No.
Seattle, Wa.
98103
(206) 632-2903
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Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 17:43:18 +0200
From: Reymen V <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hardware: ball bearings and lubricant
I always use lignum vitae wood :easy but very good stuf and no
lubrification problems even a drop of water works fine .Ever tried ?
Marc
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Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 11:11:47 -0500
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hardware: ball bearings and lubricant
Hi,
In addition to that coco bolo should work. It is an oily wood like lignum
vitae and, although quite expensive, is used to make self-lubricating guide
blocks on bandsaws because it is so oily (the oil has a spicy odor, faintly
like cinnamon) and strong.
Any of the really oily woods like these should work, but lignum vitae has
the additional advantage of being one of the densest woods out there, so it
won't wear out (but it is softer than metal, so it won't wear other
components out like metal parts could do). Lignum vitae is so dense that it
sinks quite rapidly in water.
One warning though: dusts of lignum vitae and coco bolo are both toxic (as
is purpleheart), so if you use them be sure to wear a dust mask while
working with them.
The toxicity is, to the best of my knowledge, about like that of walnut, but
considerably stronger. (Yes, walnut dust is toxic.)
-Arle
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Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 11:39:54 -0700
From: Katie Roe <Katie.Roe _at_ wizards.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] poem
Don,
It is beautiful. I have found my own creativity has difficulty
expressing itself since that day, keeping my own pain locked up inside my
heart. This helps. Thank you!
Katie Roe
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From: Don V. Lax
Reply To: hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 6:13 AM
To: hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com
Subject: [HG] poem
I was working on a hurdy gurdy poem, and then got distracted by world
events. This is a poem song written on 9/11.
Hope you don't mind...
In the midst of madness,
Our love flows
Serene.
Like a river
Of peace
And compassion,
Taking us home
To the sea.
All of these tears
Are falling
Like rain.
For the lost ones
And for those
Who don1t know
How to handle
The pain.
Waves of tenderness,
Fountains of light,
Reach across the ocean,
Filling up the night.
There isn1t any answer
For human despair-
But our souls
Know the truth
In the power of prayer.
Like a mother who sings
Songs of comfort
To her child,
We can hold
Each other gently
And remember
The music that lives
Inside.
Waves of tenderness,
Fountains of light,
Reach across the ocean,
Filling up the night,
We pray for the planet
With open-hearted hands-
And the healing will begin
In all the lands
Of our wounded
Humanity.
9/11/01
Don V. Lax
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Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 17:07:57 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] poem
Wonderful sentiment! (the poem.)
My mother is still giving time each night at the site there in New York. She
indicates that it's still 24 hours a day. Fire is still burning underneath.
She gives boots to the firemen from midnight until 6 as their boots melt
under the heat, sometimes several times each night. She's there each night.
Javit's center is not a convention center at this time, but a triage for
supplies. She says Subway is wrecked for a square mile and that 100
buildings will still have to come down. Tourism is crushed in the city.
Broadway is at 1/2. Same with some things at Lincoln Center, which is her
usual job.
What a world; what a mess sometimes.
I enjoyed the poem.
jim
.................................
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 20:07:41 +0100
From: Nick Nourse <nick _at_ frogwell.telinco.co.uk>
Subject: [HG] HG plans - LMI
This is a question aimed at the US contingent here I guess; can anyone
supply me with information about some drawings of a gurdy, supplied by
Luthiers Mercantile International, of Healdsburg, Calif.? (www.lmi.com) They
credit the drawings to a Scott Antes, but fail to give any other information
about the model or any other salient features - emailing a request for
details has produced a somewhat vague response so far.
Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks as usual...
Nick Nourse
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 04:10:34 -0700
From: Joan L. D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ uswest.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] HG plans - LMI
He Nick. I clicked on you IMI link and got a Law management firm. Verrrrry
funny. Scott Andes, BTW, is a dulcimer builder, Appalacian, as far as I
know.
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 09:15:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hardware: ball bearings and lubricant
Thanks everybody for the feedback. The original
question was "Where do you get the hardware?" The
original answer: "Local sources", might not have been
very informative if someone didn't know what the
hardware is. So I expanded it and learned a great
deal. Sometimes you learn more by lurking, and
sometimes you get some really good knowledge from
blurting out whatever is on your mind at the time. ...
I still don't know what to call the type of screw I
need for the knob shaft.
--- Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at> wrote:
> I do not know who wrote:
> I also use a quarter inch ball bearing.
That was me, Roy Trotter -Springtown, Tx. US
> ball bearings are o.k. as long as you do not want to
> amplyfy the gurdy,
> they share a lot of noise with the soundboard, which
> you get into your
> pickups.
I see.... I'm not very concerned at this point since I
have yet to make an instrument (or play any music)
that I would feel comfortable amplifying. I am very
pleased with the enhanced performance with the ball
and wonder if the aforementioned nylon(?) would be
quiet enough.
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:15:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hardware: ball bearings and lubricant
Oops, hit the wrong button on the last post and cut
off...
--- marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it> wrote:
> In my opinion Nylon is better than Derlin for lot of
> reasons (just one: a well made Nylon bearing lasts
> forever and never take play).
> Of course it's not so easy to work on....
>
> > ... a quarter inch ball bearing. I had
> > a hard time finding this one.
>
> Just because you're not a cyclist! :o)
> Every good bicycle shop have lot of excellent ball
> bearings in several dimentions: the best are called
> "25 grade" but "100" or "200" grade balls are more
> than enough for HGs (because you don't sit OVER your
> gurdy, I hope :o)
I actually I was a Cyclist several years ago, but I
never found a "good" shop. All I got out of similar
searches was sarcasm and inuendo. They only wanted to
sell whole bicycles or parts assemblies. (I had a
similar experience with auto dealerships, can't buy a
rear lens, they want to sell you the whole
quarterpanel.) Anyway I suspect that I have a lifetime
supply.
> Other good lubricant is a heavy, ever lasting
> "everythink proof" oil called "Phil Wood Tenacious
> Oil" ...
<Doh!> I may have a lifetime supply of that too.
From Bruce Nally: R/C Model aircraft... Makes sense.
Are you there Theo?
From Ken Sarkozy: Small Parts. I had heard of the
place but wasn't really aware that this was the name
of the business: Thanks for the link.
From Arle Lommel: (Cocobolo) and Reymen V: (Lignum
vitae). I like Cocobolo, except for the part where it
lights my hands up. Luckily, I'm allergic enough to it
that I discovered the problem before buying the stuff.
Never even seen L.V. but given the stated similarity
... I haven't noticed any skin-allergy problem with
Purple Heart, or Walnut, but I do mask up and pull my
sander outside into the wind, anyway.
Anyway, anyway. Thanks to all for the replys, I hope
this has been as educational for you-all as it is for
me.
Roy Trotter, Springtown, Tx USA.
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Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 11:21:05 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hardware: ball bearings and lubricant
Hi Roy, Simon, etal
I think (though I might be wrong) that what Simon was referring to is a
roller bearing. This type of bearing uses a series of lubricated metal
balls or pins enclosed in a sleeve which fits over the shaft. The shaft
rolls around on the metal pieces. In our experience, Simon is right about
them being an okay system, but rather noisy especially in an amplified
instrument.
What Roy is talking about is a different system. It is a single metal ball
enclosed in lubricant inside a delrin bearing. The tip of the shaft fits
onto the ball and rotates inside the delrin bearing. This system is very
quiet and even at high amplification there isn't any appreciable noise from
the bearing.
Isn't language fun?
:-)-----Cali Hackmann
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 12:18:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] HG plans - LMI
We haven't seen these yet - the ones we got from LMI before were kind of a
joke. I hope these are better. I haven't heard of Scott Antes before.
BTW, the URL for LMI is www.lmii.com. (Let's see how many acronyms we can
fit in one sentence...)
Alden F.M. Hackmann darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae.">
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 14:03:30 -0700
From: R. Lebedeva <rlebedeva _at_ home.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] beginners' playing group
I'm a beginner, too! :-)
Rachael Lebedeva
3601 SW Kenyon
Seattle, WA 98126
(206) 935-2064
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Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 14:26:52 -0500
From: Patricia A. Lipscomb <plipscomb _at_ qwest.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] beginners' playing group
Thanks, Rachel. We're trying to put together a plan for meeting
regularly. I'll add you to the beginners' list & let you know as soon as
we have a date and time.
To all beginners: Would you be up for meeting Sat. Oct. 13? Anyone
coming in from out of town could bunk at my place on Fri. night (Sat.
too if they want). If we wanted to do an all-day thing, we could have a
potluck supper.
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 12:31:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: [HG] Handle bearing hardware
On Tue, 2 Oct 2001, Roy Trotter wrote:
> I still don't know what to call the type of screw I
> need for the knob shaft.
I don't know what you use, but we use a thing called a shoulder bolt.
It's essentially a piece of precision steel shaft material (1/4" on the
ones we use) with some threading at one end (with the major diameter of
the threads being smaller than the diameter of the shaft - on ours, it's
10-32) and a wider short cylinder at the other end, wider diameter than
the shaft, with a hexagonal socket in the end. A picture of one would be
a lot easier - I'll post one if there's interest.
Of course you can't just go out and buy one or two at Home Despot. We buy
them by the box of 25 at MSC Industrial Supply, but most people only need
one.
Since I've mentioned MSC Industrial, I'll put in a plug for them: MSC is
THE answer to just about any metalworking need. They have fast and
impeccable service, and a gigantic catalog which you can use for
weightlifting when you're not paging through it.
Also of interest, though with much higher prices, is SmallParts Inc.
There are just a few things we can only get there, but I try to avoid them
because of their prices and minimum orders. YMMV
Alden
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 15:28:40 -0500
From: Aaron and Carolyn Gritzmaker <gritz _at_ hpnc.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] HG plans - LMI
Luthiers Merchantile is a very good company, good products, etc. They have
great wood and a wonderful catalogue with loads of good information and good
tools. However, I do happen to have a set of these plans and they are
basically the same very very basic hg plans that have been floating around
for years and years and years (even my dad had a set!). While you might be
able to build a hg with these, if you're serious about building a good
instrument that you plan on playing a lot I suggest you get a more complete
set of plans. I bought a set of Lambert Guitar-shaped gurdy plans from
Michael Muskett in England and built a pretty nice instrument (mind you, I'm
not a professional builder, so it could have been a lot better!). Just my
2 cents worth....
Carolyn in Maypearl, Texas
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Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 19:42:38 -0500
From: Patricia A. Lipscomb <plipscomb _at_ qwest.net>
To: "hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com" <hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com>
Subject: [Fwd: [HG] beginners' playing group]
One person wrote me that Sat. Oct. 13 doesn't work well for her but Sun.
Oct. 14 does. I could do that day just as well. Are others interested in one
day more than another?
Trish
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Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 22:22:19 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Forward from Sheila
Trish:
Count me in for this gathering!!!
That Friday is the monthly French Dance in Seattle. It might be fun for the
beginning gurdy players if they attended to hear the music and see how the
dances work.
Even though I can't play a majority of the tunes, I still go to get exposure
to the dances and the music played. It's helped me a lot when I'm trying to
learn a new song.
If folks don't want to sit with the band and drone (my personal favorite
pastime at these gigs), dance instruction is provided and can be a lot of
fun.
Bring $5 for the evening - would anyone like to meet ahead of time for
dinner? That would be great!!!
Sheila Donoghue
For more information go to http://overthewater.org/dances.html
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Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 22:31:12 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Handle shafts
I took a picture of the shoulder bolt we use for the handle shaft, as
mentioned earlier. It's at:
http://www.hurdygurdy.com/omi/images/handle_shaft.jpg
There's a handle there for scale (and because I like how it looks.)
Alden
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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 11:13:56 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hardware: ball bearings and lubricant
--- Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com> wrote:
> I actually I was a Cyclist several years ago...
Oops....
> but I never found a "good" shop.
As usual.....
Anyway, there is a good "small parts" shop in Ashland
(OR) called "the third hand".
They used to sell loose balls (about 2 bucks for 100
gurdies...or for 2 gurdies and 10 years of bicycle
maintenance).
The web address should be
www.thethirdhand.com
or something like this, they have a good mail service
and they sell several good light grease and heavy oil
too.
Just don't be surprised by the price...9oz "good" oil
cost the same as a "decent" bottle of vine (but last
longer :o)
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 13:23:50 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hardware: ball bearings and lubricant
Hello Alden and list,
you are right with this. Its just my insufficient technical english.
In fact this ball bearings sound to be an interesting thing.
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Hi Alden-
That shoulder bolt looks just like the one I use. A related question,
about that handle:
How do you guys make those things, and how is it treated to make it black?
~ Matt
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew Szostak - Hurdy-Gurdies
7 Grove Street
Camden, Maine 04843
phone/fax: 207-236-9576
email: gurdy _at_ midcoast.com
website: http://www.midcoast.com/~beechhil/vielle
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 12:30:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hardware: ball bearings and lubricant
Simon said:
> you are right with this. Its just my insufficient technical english.
> In fact this ball bearings sound to be an interesting thing.
We owe our use of this bearing system to Marcello, who introduced us to
it. Previously we had relied on a blind hole in the Delrin head bearing
which exactly fit the spindle nose of the shaft. Marcello's single ball
system has several advantages:
- There is no direct wear on the Delrin head bearing material.
- The blind hole does not need to be of exact diameter, since the shaft
actually doesn't rest against the side of the hole.
- The head bearing can afford to be slightly misaligned, as the single
ball is self-aligning (within a fairly narrow range, but much more
forgiving than our previous system).
Every silver lining has a cloud or two:
- The ball can fall out during maintenance, as it likes to stick to the
tip of the shaft and then drop into the instrument before you can catch
it, leaving a little grease smear on the wood after you've retrieved it
with a magnet. ;-(
- Conversely, sometimes the ball doesn't come out when you want it to.
We had to make a special ball bearing retriever from a magnet and a long
piece of aluminum round stock.
Alden, who spends a lot more time thinking about bearings than perhaps he
would like to. ;-)
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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 19:53:37 -0700
From: Joan L. D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ uswest.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] beginners' playing group]
Hi Trish. OOOOPs. Looked at my message to you and realized I had edited
out an important pharase when I was shortening my message. I meant to say,
If you would like to get together for some planning, I could be free to meet
with you. Sorry. Looking forward to the first get-together.
Joan L. D'Andrea
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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 00:09:58 -0700
From: Nathan Roy <imakhy _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] HG in Hieroglyphs
Dear list,
It sounds like everyone who went had a good time at the festival. Too bad
going to college will make me unable to attend for the next three years... I
still haven't even seen a real HG being played. With luck, though, my own
project will hopefully be finished sometime after this Christmas! (Alden
probably remembers I said the same thing last year.)
Anyways, One of my hobbies other than dreaming about the hurdy gurdy is
ancient languages, and your project of compiling nomenclature in French,
German, and Hungarian inspired me to investigate what names the ancient
Egyptians might have used. Obviously, the instrument appeared at least a
thousand years after this tongue went extinct, so the exercise is not only
pointless, but hard to carry out as well.
Still, there was one interesting little tidbit I found, which others on this
list might appreciate: In Egyptian, 'herti-gerti' is the closest equivalent
to our instrument's English name, and it can be translated literally as
'Calm down! Be quiet!' An echo, perchance, of the anguished admonitions of
those listeners in antiquity?
Just a nice, random fact you might have found amusing...
Nathan Roy
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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 00:35:18 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Forward From Rob McConnell
Nick:
I think I have a copy of those plans. They are very basic as another
member has
said. If I can find them I will take some pictures and email them to you
so you
can scope them out.
Let me know if you are not interested.
Rob McConnell
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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 09:44:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] HG plans - LMI
--- Aaron and Carolyn Gritzmaker <gritz _at_ hpnc.com>
wrote:
> I bought a set of Lambert
> Guitar-shaped gurdy plans from
> Michael Muskett in England and built a pretty nice
> instrument....
Pretty nice instument". Pretty nice understatement.
Later, Roy T.
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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 11:04:54 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] HG in Hieroglyphs
Nathan said:
>Still, there was one interesting little tidbit I found, which others on this
>list might appreciate: In Egyptian, 'herti-gerti' is the closest equivalent
>to our instrument's English name, and it can be translated literally as
>'Calm down! Be quiet!' An echo, perchance, of the anguished admonitions of
>those listeners in antiquity?
ROTFL! Those Egyptians...
At one time (long before my hurdy-gurdy obsession) I had an interest in
hieroglyphs, and wrote out all sorts of things using them. Of course my
little sheet of hieroglyphs has vanished. What are the symbols for
HRT-GRT, Nathan? Or is there a D symbol, so we could write HRD-GRD?
(Written Egyptian did not use the vowels.)
LDN (Alden?)(Aladin?)(Laden?)(Ulodon?)(Oldna?)
Good thing they found the Rosetta Stone...
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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:05:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] HG in Hieroglyphs: long projects
--- Nathan Roy <imakhy _at_ hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear list,
>
> With luck, though, my own
> project will hopefully be finished sometime after
> this Christmas! (Alden
> probably remembers I said the same thing last year.)
>
Both Hackmanns, Marcello, and a few others may
remember that I originally set out to make 2 HGs more
or less at the same time. The first one was a
prototype, wherein I was going to iron out the kinks
in scrap wood: the other was to be a "real musical
instrument". One thing led to another and I've been
over two years catching up w/the second (It may be
argued that I'm still ironing out kinks). And, like
you, I always hope to be finished by Christmas. Keep
your chin up: It's a zen thing: shooting the arrow is
more important than hitting the target, etc. etc.
Later, Roy T.
P.S. I can never decided where to put the <g> so
here's a few extras, sprinkle them about where you
will... <g><g><g><g><g>
<g><g><g><g><g><g><g><g><g><g><g><g><g>)
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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 20:23:51 +0100
From: Nick Nourse <nick _at_ frogwell.telinco.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] Forward From Rob McConnell
hi Rob
Thanks for the offer; however, the feedback is non too special and I am
tending towards using an historical drawing of either a Louvet or a Lambert,
so don't put yourself to any further effort on this one. Thanks again all
the same.
Nick Nourse
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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 13:50:25 -0700
From: Nathan Roy <imakhy _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] HG in Hieroglyphs
Alden said:
>At one time (long before my hurdy-gurdy obsession) I had an interest in
>hieroglyphs, and wrote out all sorts of things using them. Of course my
>little sheet of hieroglyphs has vanished. What are the symbols for
>HRT-GRT, Nathan? Or is there a D symbol, so we could write HRD-GRD?
>(Written Egyptian did not use the vowels.)
>
Interesting... I wouldn't have guessed anyone else here had studied
hieroglyphs. Obscure interests must go hand in hand with each other.
In Middle Eastern writing systems, vowels are indeed not indicated, but
there are some silent letters that may point to them. In Egyptian, long I
and U were represented by Y and W, respectively. They actually did have the
D sound, but my version is an attempt to write something which has meaning
in the Egyptian language, and hrdygrdy would mean 'calm the gift, silence
the gift.' That sounds a bit stange to me...
Anyway, if you want the symbols, you can visit the hieroglyphic dictionary
at the address below. The two links in the first paragraph provide some
good, comprehensive sign lists.
http://www.mypage.onemain.com/jimloy/hiero/e-dict.htm
This is how I would write out 'hrty-grty':
h = house plan in the form of an angular spiral
r = mouth (written beneath the H)
ti = pestle (combination symbol found in the second chart, and also a
variant form of T used next to tall signs)
y = two reeds
g = stool or pot (the rest same as in hrty)
A more literal designation, following the etymologies of 'drehleier' and
'vielle a roue' might be 'bnt pxr' the 'harp of rotating.'
Well, I should probably finish some homework and get more sanding done on my
instrument. My decorative banding and such has really turned out to be a
time-consuming improvement. When I'm done, it will be perfecting the
tangents. Your keybox sides are actually a little warped, so we're going to
need to fix that somehow before the final strokes are made. What would you
suggest? Anyway, that's probably weeks from now if I know my building
history... If only I'd simply bought a minstrel model in the first place!
I've come too far for that now...
Nathan Roy
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Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 09:48:20 +1000
From: Aylwen <garden _at_ earthlydelights.com.au>
Subject: [HG] Fw: SCAND: airline carryon legislation
Warmest Regards,
Aylwen Garden
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Sagan <sagan _at_ math.msu.edu>
To: scand _at_ yahoogroups.com <scand _at_ yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, 5 October 2001 2:34
Subject: SCAND: airline carryon legislation
>While the fowarded message below isn't specifically about Scandinavian
>music and dance, it might affect many of the musicians on this list.
>
>-Bruce Sagan
>>From: Library [mailto:library _at_ baltimoresymphony.org]
>>Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 12:22 PM
>>To: 'MOLA'
>>Subject: for U.S. librarians
>>
>>
>>Dear Colleagues:
>>
>>The American Federation of Musicians is very concerned that the Senate
>>Transportation Committee will pass a ruling to ban all carry-on luggage
from
>>domestic flights. This would have a devasting impact on our industry. How
>>would musicians be able to travel to festivals, to auditions, to
vacations,
>>on tours, anywhere, if forced to put their instruments in the belly of the
>>plane?
>>
>>The AFM is asking all musicians to contact their senator if applicable
(see
>>below for the list) to ask for them to keep us in mind when considering
this
>>legislation. Please call today or tomorrow. The senators need to hear from
>>many musicians, not just a few of us, so please spread the word.
>>
>>Thanks for your help.
>>
>>Mary Plaine
>>Baltimore Symphony Orchestra
>>
>>[If I have used this site improperly, I apologize.]
>>
>>* * * * *
>>
>> > The following is a message from Ann Drinan, President of ROPA, to the
>> > ROPA mailing list. I don't need to tell members of ICSOM orchestras
>> > what a devastating blow it would be to professional musicians and
>> > orchestras that tour not to be able to take instruments on airplanes.
>> > But that is what is being proposed.
>> >
>> > I urge you to pick up the phone and call your Senator about this,
>> > *especially* if your Senator is on the Senate Transportation
>> > Committee. I also urge you to post this at work and urge your
>> > colleagues to do the same. This legislation is likely to be voted on
>> > by the Senate by the end of the week, so please don't wait a few
>> > days. We don't have a few days.
>> >
>> > Robert Levine
>> > ICSOM Chair
>> >
>> >
>> > #####
>> >
>> > (from Ann Drinan, ROPA President)
>> >
>> > There are currently closed-door negotiations with interested parties
in
>> > progress with the Senate Transportation Committee to amend the
Aviation
>> > Security Bill [ S.1447] sponsored by Senator Hollings. (Go to this
>> > website for more information: http://thomas.loc.gov.) The AFM has
reason
>> > to believe that a proposal is being negotiated that would eliminate
all
>> > carry-on baggage from all commercial flights, which would have an
>> > extremely negative impact on most musicians.
>> >
>> > We are urging all musicians whose Senators are on this subcommittee
>> > (listed below) to call or write the Senate office immediately (no
>> > e-mails are being accepted) stating the following:
>> >
>> > 1. You and your orchestra (if you can speak for them) are very
concerned
>> > for the safety of airline personnel and are certainly not opposed to
>> > S.1447 but would oppose legislation that would totally eliminate
airline
>> > carry-on baggage for the following reasons:
>> >
>> > A. As professional musicians our instruments must travel with us on
many
>> > occasions. Many are antiques, are quite valuable (most are worth many
>> > thousands and some millions of dollars), are extremely sensitive to
>> > climate changes, and must be stored safely so there is no damage from
>> > turbulence. String instruments in particular are extremely delicate
and
>> > cannot withstand the treatment they would receive from the commercial
>> > airlines' baggage-handling mechanisms.
>> >
>> > B. Many musicians tour for a living, either in small groups or in
large
>> > orchestras, and thousands of students attend summer festivals and
travel
>> > back and forth to school. Traveling soloists would not be able to
>> > perform the rigorous schedules they currently do if their instruments
>> > cannot travel with them. Also, orchestras must fill vacancies through
>> > auditions, and musicians from around the country and globally must be
>> > allowed to carry their instruments with them.
>> >
>> > C. We are very sensitive to the loss of life and are eager to ensure
the
>> > safety of airline flight attendants and pilots, as well as passengers,
>> > but the elimination of all carry-on baggage would be catastrophic to
the
>> > economic well-being of our industry. Most orchestras cannot afford to
>> > charter their own planes or hire private jets for their soloists, and
>> > chamber ensembles would be unable to tour. Commercial travel is the
only
>> > option for most of us and we simply must be able to hand-carry our
>> > instruments onto the plane.
>> >
>> > List senators and their states below.
>> >
[ list deleted for brevity]
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Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 09:52:34 -0500
From: Patricia A. Lipscomb <plipscomb _at_ qwest.net>
To: "hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com" <hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com>
Subject: [HG] Beginners' group
To all Seattle-area beginners:
OK. folks, looks like we have a plan. Based on on- and off-list
communications to me, the consensus is as follows:
FIRST MEETING:
When: Sunday 10-14
10:00 a.m. till early afternoon
Where: My house
1007 - 14th Ave. East
Seattle, WA 98112
Agenda: Playing!
Figuring out how we want to proceed (e.g., whether
and how often
to hire an instructor)
I will be happy to provide lunch for everyone this time (maybe potluck
after this time). I just need to have a head count by Wed. 10-10 so I
can plan.
If there are any beginners out there who are on the list but who have
not yet met any of us, you are doubly welcome!
TRish (206-726-8611)
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Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 06:39:34 -0700
From: Joan L. D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ uswest.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] beginners' playing group]
Hi Trish. Sounds great to me. See you Sunday.
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Date: 5 Oct 2001 22:03:18 -0000
From: bourgogne _at_ bourgogne.free-online.co.uk
Subject: [HG] dictionary description
Thought readers might like the description I found in a dictionary published in the
late 1800s including 'words coined during the Great War'. Sorry the exact date pages are missing.
'Orig. a stringed musical instrument like a rude violin, sounded by a rosined wheel
turned by the left hand, the right playing on keys; a barrel-organ, or other instrument
played with a handle'
Initially I read it thinking well 'rude' is obviously pertaining to rustic and completely
missed that the instrument described is left handed ! I have only ever seen one left
handed instrument (at St Chartier designed by Boudet for a lad with a hand disability)
so to have one as the basis for a dictionary definition seems pretty strange to me. were
left handed versions more common or did the etymologist get it wrong ?
I will post separately a description published in a music book of the same period which
is also very interesting and shows the perceptions of the time.
Steve
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Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:37:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vincent Ho <hbv _at_ tsoft.com>
Subject: [HG] Concerto advice needed
I am planning to play a concerto for hurdy gurdy with a bunch of friends
next month. I am looking at Corrette right now. Any suggestion? I would
like to have a relatively easy and short piece, and preferably, can be a
duet with flute or recorder or violin. 10-15 mins will do.
--
Vincent B. Ho hbv _at_ tsoft.com
--
Horloge! dieu sinistre, effrayant, impassible
Dont le doigt nous menace et nous dit "Souviens-toi!
Les vibrantes Douleurs dans ton coeur plein d'effroi
Se planteront bientot comme dans une cible;
-- Charles Baudelaire (Spleen et ideal. LXXXV)
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Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 10:02:50 -0400
From: Bruno Cognyl-Fournier <fournierbru _at_ securenet.net>
Subject: [HG] Daniel Thonon
Hello,
I am new on the list. I have been playing lute for over 25 years, and
am in the process of building a symphonia for the medieval group I
belong to. (see: www.estavel.org).
I wondered if anyone on this list had an email address for Daniel
Thonon. I met him at his home a few months ago, and he gave me useful
information to build my symphonia, however I have a few more questions
for him. I don't want to bother him by phone (+ I understand he is on
the road quite a bit).
Thank you.
Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
Montreal
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Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 11:19:18 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] dictionary description
I, for one, do not know at all. :(
Did the barrel organ "player" or operator use the left hand more often to do
that instrument,
and then your book confuses it with the keyed HG?
period image 1880: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/mustrad/organ.htm
image (lower right) showing left-handed barrel organ:
http://members.aol.com/mboxpic3/ordbo1.jpg
...............................
history of that instrument w/monkey, in general
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1444/history.html
south america
http://www.todotango.com/english/biblioteca/cronicas/organito.html
english church
http://www.aspects.net/~cturner/Page0004.Html
....................................
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Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 15:32:21 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Daniel Thonon
Dear Bruno -
As far as I know Daniel Thonon doesn't have email yet. If anyone knows
differently, I'd also be interested to know his address.
Good luck with the symphonia! Are you taking pictures as you build?
Alden
>
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Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 21:37:52 -0400
From: Bruno Cognyl-Fournier <fournierbru _at_ securenet.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Daniel Thonon
Someone gave me an email address for him: thononda _at_ gamma.aei.ca
I wrote to him today, so far the message hasn't come back to me ...that
doesn't mean however that he still uses that address. Otherwise I'll just
call him and make an appointment with him, he just lives 45 minutes away
from me.
I don't really take pictures as I build my instruments, I should however to
remember the steps I took.... This Symphonia is an experiment, I'm just
improvising as I go along and I am using cheap materials as a prototype. I
am not a luthier, just a guy who likes to build instruments as he needs
them.....but if I succeed I will be glad to share my technique with others.
Have you seen my group's website? we plan on putting more information on
building instruments in a simple and affordable way....go see the site
www.estavel.org (sorry it's only in french).
Thanks for replying
Bruno
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Date: Sunday, October 07, 2001 4:05 AM
From: "Alden & Cali Hackmann" <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] dictionary description
Steve said:
>Initially I read it thinking well 'rude' is obviously pertaining to
rustic
> and completely missed that the instrument described is left handed ! I
have
> only ever seen one left handed instrument (at St Chartier designed by
> Boudet for a lad with a hand disability) so to have one as the basis for a
> dictionary definition seems pretty strange to me. were left handed
versions
> more common or did the etymologist get it wrong ?
We've only seen one "backwards" HG, but I believe it was built by Bernard
Kerboeuf - at least that's whose stall at St. Chartier he was hanging out
by.
We get asked about building them, on a surprisingly frequent basis.
Some of the really old iconography (12th-15th century) shows the instrument
backwards, but who can say if these were drawn from life or from the
artist's recollection, which was incorrect? Certainly I haven't seen any
evidence of backwards HG's in the last 300 years, except for the one at St.
C.
Alden
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Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:01:49 -0700
From: Joan L. D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ uswest.net>
Subject: [HG] Re: Jacob Priestly
I thought I would pass this on to the list since it sings the praises of our
own Jacob Priestley and he has been so modest about his success. I wish I
had known about the performance. It would have been such fun to go. Jacob,
if you are reading this, you really have to tell us on the list when you
will be doing similar projects in the future. :-)
Joan L. D'Andrea
Arts & Entertainment : Thursday, June 18, 1998
Puppets offer new take on tale of infamous rake
by Misha Berson
Seattle Times theater critic
Theater review: ``Don Juan,'' by Anton Kuhn. Clay Martin Puppet Theater at
Belltown Theatre Center, 115 Blanchard St., Seattle. Friday-Sunday through
June 28. 206-728-7609.
The legendary, lascivious Spanish nobleman Don Juan has been famously
immortalized in operas, plays, poems and films. Less well-known are the
marionette dramas conveying his saga of lust, greed and murder.
In the late 18th century, 200 years after playwright Tirso de Molina
invented the iconic character, German puppetmasters began performing his
story for adult audiences.
The Vashon Island-based puppet artist Clay Martin has located an 1887 script
for "Don Juan," credited to puppeteer Anton Kuhn and housed in the Munich
Theater Museum.
Martin is not just a dedicated puppet maker and performer, but a serious
historian of this centuries-old theater form. (His recent puppet version of
Mozart's opera "Bastien and Bastienne" was a treat.)
Now the Clay Martin Puppet Theater is presenting its own English-language
twist on Kuhn's "Don Juan" at Belltown Theatre Center.
Only a German theater scholar could say if they've met their goal of making
a historically accurate replica of the 18th-century puppet style. But this
miniaturized "Don Juan," while rather stilted dramatically, does offer an
intriguing alternative take on a familiar story.
Enacted by finely crafted two-foot-tall wooden marionettes, against a
backdrop of hand-painted pictorial sets, the hour-long play mixes elements
of commedia dell'arte servant-master slapstick into the darker story of Don
Juan's fiendish behavior.
The plot has been streamlined to de-emphasize sex and focus on a handful of
characters: the murderous rake himself and his wisecracking servant
Leporello, plus the victims of Don Juan's homicidal rage. Here they include
his own father, brother, about-to-be sister-in-law, and a young rural couple
whose wedding day turns into a bloodbath.
Also on hand are the leering red devils who taunt Don Juan into hell. These
little critters are mighty cute when they pop up like demonic
Jack-in-the-Box toys.
Unlike Mozart's "Don Giovanni" opera, or Lord Byron's "Don Juan" verse epic,
this puppet opus works best as boffo slasher-comedy rather than as moral
tragedy. Joined by two agile fellow puppeteers, and Seattle Opera soprano
Elizabeth Ripley, Martin takes a while to get us into the proper spirit of
his rendition.
But the visuals are consistently beguiling. So is the graceful live music on
clavichord, hurdy-gurdy, and the virginal (an earlier stringed instrument),
all provided by the musician-craftsman Jacob Priestly.
Copyright � 2001 The Seattle Times Company
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Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 12:47:54 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] dictionary description
Remember a lot of the old illustrations are copied from original drawings
for printing (lithographs, wood block prints etc) and are a mirror image of
the original unless the original is reversed for that purpose). Could this
explain it?
Colin Hill
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Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 10:58:23 -0500
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] Calling your senator-re: flying with instruments
Hi all,
the problem I see with this bill, as with most "improvements" in airline
security over the past few years is tat they have very little to do with
really tightening security and much more to do with meeting a public
perception in what tightening security should be. I have thought for years
that all the typical security arrangements would do is discourage fairly
unsophisticated and/or "casual" attempts to carry hazardous items on
airplanes. The present bill is more of the same. If someone wants to get
something onto an airplane bad enough they can.
Not only instrumentalists, but also Moms with infants would be adversely
affected. I can see it now -- "If you don't let me carry on this bag and the
plane is forced to put down when my little bundle of love goes toxic and I
don't have a diaper, remember whose fault it is!".
Excluding carry-on baggage on planes would do almost nothing to improve
security, but would make liability costs for airlines soar. If the senate is
serious about bailing the airlines, the last thing they should do is
implement this rule. The present changes have made it harder to carry on
baggage anyway, and will cut down on amounts carried on, but excluding all
would be a real problem.
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Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 13:14:54 -0400
From: Bruno Cognyl-Fournier <fournierbru _at_ securenet.net>
Subject: [HG] symphonia
Hi,
I mentionned on this list that I was building a symphonia. Does anyone
on the list have one? I would like to know the setup of the
chanterelles and the drones (pitch of each string and tessitura). Would
the two drones be same pitch but one octave apart, or would they be a
fifth apart? and is one of the drones at unison with the chanterelles?
Thank you
Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
Montreal
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Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 20:06:34 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] symphonia
Hello,
I have no symphonia and did not read any literature about it but I want
to add my opinion about drones:
Bruno Cognyl-Fournier wrote:
I would like to know the setup of the
> chanterelles and the drones (pitch of each string and tessitura). Would
> the two drones be same pitch but one octave apart, or would they be a
> fifth apart ?
To my taste drones being a fifth apart have some "un-natural" appeal and
sometimes make melodies sound quite strange. The reason is that in the
row of harmonics of a certain note there is no fifth directly next to
the basic note, the natural order is (in Hz if basic note is 1Hz) 1, 2
(=octave), 3 (=fifth), 4 (=octave of the octave), 5 (=major third), etc.
.
So to my taste the drones should be tuned to oktaves, an eventual third
drone to the fifth of the octave.
> and is one of the drones at unison with the chanterelles?
I would chose the chanterelles being tuned to the fifth of the drone, if
possible above the higer drone, but this depends on the pitch you want
for the instruments and the string dimentions and lenghts you can choose
for the lower drone, I mean if the low drone is really low, somwhere
between C and G of the cello.
I would choose the fifth because now your diatonic major scale starts at
the third key (fourth note) which is what the diatonic row of keys of a
usual hurdy gurdy is designed for.
Simon wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 22:00:31 +0000
From: Madame Colson <colsonvielle _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] Daniel Thonon
Daniel's e mail is thononda _at_ gamma.aei.ca
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Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 16:12:18 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] dictionary description
>Just for a fun I made a left handed PHOENIX two years ago and showed it in
>St. Chartier and at workshops in Germany. I sold only one. But we all had
>great fun when the great players tried it. Mathias Loibner could play a
>difficult four stroke piece with blindfolded eyes. He didn't see the
>instrument before. We had really great fun all together. - Nigel called me a
>bastard!!
<chuckle> ! I'd have liked to have seen that....
>I have realized the problems what beginners have when the try just to have
>an even round turn and a stroke. When you stop thinking about it, it is much
>easier!
This is one of the reasons that I shy away from making them this way: I
think I would have a hard time setting it up, because I don't play it
backward! The technical problems can pretty much be solved with
left-handed taps and dies and such, and these are readily available. It's
the playing and setup part that I would prefer to avoid. I'm willing to do
it if the cause is right (as with the guy who is missing part of his left
hand) but not just because someone wants it that way.
When people ask, I always tell them that it doesn't matter if you are left
or right handed, because each hand is making a complex motion.
Alden
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Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 16:15:52 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] symphonia
Dear Bruno,
>I mentionned on this list that I was building a symphonia. Does anyone
>on the list have one?
We've built several, and I think that at least some of their owners are on
the list here.
>I would like to know the setup of the
>chanterelles and the drones (pitch of each string and tessitura).
I'm not familiar with the term "tessitura".
>Would
>the two drones be same pitch but one octave apart, or would they be a
>fifth apart? and is one of the drones at unison with the chanterelles?
It's up to you - whatever works.
We usually build them with 2 chanters and 3 drones:
chanters: g' unison
trompette: c'
petit bourdon: c
gros bourdon: G
Just like a G/C French HG with the mouche missing.
Bon chance!
Alden
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Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 01:35:57 +0100
From: Dave Praties <dave _at_ dpraties.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] symphonia
Hi Alden,
Please excuse my inexcuseable ignorance, but what is a
symphonia?
Cheers, Dave.
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Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 22:03:45 -0700
From: Diana O'Neill <dianamark _at_ foxinternet.com>
To: hglist <hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com>
Subject: [HG] Calling your senator-re: flying with instruments
In reference to the message from Aylwen, October 5th, regarding the
Senate Transportation Committee's meeting to decide whether to ban
carry-on luggage on domestic flights; Alden requested that I post
Senators and phone numbers. I know from having done this in the past
that the most expedient way to contact them is to call.
Reference the Aviation Security Bill [S.1447}
Simply read what is written in the e-mail, beginning at the bottom of
page 2 to the middle of page 3 or, embellish if you like, on the phone.
Apparently they will not accept e-mail and letters may take too long to
reach them as according to the e-mail this is happening now.
Maria Cantwell (206) 220-6400
Washington D.C (202) 224-3441
Patty Murray (206) 553-5545
Washington D.C (202) 224-2621
The only Northwest senator on the committee is Gordon Smith, (Oregon).
D.C. (202) 224-3753 . There are senators from lots of other states
listed in the e-mail however, for those of you in other states
Diana O'Neill,Seattle
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Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 01:53:39 -0400
From: eugene <eugenebienvenue _at_ softhome.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] symphonia
Hi All,
Guess it's high time I introduced myself.
My name is Eugene, and I'm from montreal too.
I and my ex wife spent ten years playing Renaissance music across Europe,
first with Lute and Recorders, and then later, as I learned to build, Hurdy
Gurdy, Shawm, Crumhorn, Cornamuse, and Rakett.
I've taken the last 2 years off from touring to learn computer and build a
(virtual) recording studio, with the hope of finally realizing the dream of
releasing my own album. That dream is finally coming true, and you can
imagine what a joy and relief that is.
I hope to integrate the Hurdy Gurdy and the other "Early" instruments in my
collection into my Folk-Rock style music. God only knows how that'll work
out. Some fusion, eh?
Anyhow....to answer the question, the Symphonia is the medeival predecessor
of the Hurdy Gurdy, being a rectangular box inside of which turns a smaller
(hence quieter) rosined wheel. The scale is diatonic, and there is no
trompette.
You can check out a pretty nice picture here: (sorry about the long url)
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=digilander.iol.it/silvioorlandi/FOTO/
ghironda2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://digilander.iol.it/silvioorlandi/le_ghironede_
di_silvio_orlandi.htm&h=596&w=938&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsymphonia%2B%252B%2Bmed
ieval%2B%26num%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG
Cheers,
Eugene Bienvenue
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Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 02:01:10 -0400
From: eugene <eugenebienvenue _at_ softhome.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] symphonia
Here's that url again.
Sorry about that.
http://digilander.iol.it/silvioorlandi/FOTO/ghironda2.jpg
~Eugene
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Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 08:03:09 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: [HG] Tessitura
--- Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
wrote:
> I'm not familiar with the term "tessitura".
In Italian "tessitura" is something like "range" (from
g to g', as exemple)
I think it was the meaning
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 08:19:39 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: [HG] Concerto advice needed
Hi Vincent
There are several duets in Corrette's method
(reprinted by Minkoff).
In the same method you'll find two "suites" of short
tunes for HG and bass (about 20 minutes of music) and
several songs.
All music is easy to play .
Ciao
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 10:35:50 +0200
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] dictionary description
Hi Alden,
About this subject I had a discussion with Marianne Broecker and Jaques
Grandchamp this year in St. Chartier. Jaques mentioned the same as you with
the complex movements. I agree to that, but when you have been playing maybe
a guitar lefthanded before, you will have greater problems on playing a
right hand gurdy. When I started to play the gurdy, I had less problems to
find the keys and to control the action as I had it now on the left handed.
Greetings
Helmut
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Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 01:45:03 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] symphonia
Dave said:
>Please excuse my inexcuseable ignorance, but what is a
>symphonia?
It's one of the many names applied to the "hurdy-gurdy in a box" which was
the predominant form of the instrument in the 13th and 14th centuries.
Other names were "symphonie" (our favorite, though it has the potential for
misunderstanding, as in "Beethovan's Fifth Symphonie") and "chifonie", and
a bunch of varients on that.
As Eugene noted, they were generally portrayed as being diatonic, with no
trompette, though we build them chromatic with a trompette for versatility.
I like to think that all sorts of things could have been under that lid,
so whatever we put it there is OK. ;-)
Alden
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Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 09:51:52 -0400
From: Bruno Cognyl-Fournier <fournierbru _at_ securenet.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] symphonia
Tessitura means the range of the note......
Thank you for the information. How is your Trompettes set up? I will be
having the bridge sit on the bottom of the box and using the bottom of the box
as a resonator.
Bruno
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Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 09:29:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vincent Ho <hbv _at_ tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Concerto advice needed
On Mon, 8 Oct 2001, [iso-8859-1] marcello bono wrote:
Perhaps I did not make myself clear...I am looking for pieces of music
with hurdy gurdy and an orchestra. Right now I am looking at a couple
of Corette's concertos, but I wonder is there anything that is easier.
It does not have to be concertos, actually, as long as the instrumentation
has a hurdy gurdy, and a small baroque period orchestra.
Vincent B. Ho hbv _at_ tsoft.com
--
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Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 19:43:21 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Concerto advice needed
Hello,
the easiest music of that kind I know is the "Bauernhochzeit" by Leopold
Mozart. The hurdy gurdy part is really simple, the only problem I see is
that one has to find a player (or other solution) for the bagpipe part.
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 10:53:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vincent Ho <hbv _at_ tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Concerto advice needed
On Mon, 8 Oct 2001, Simon Wascher wrote:
This would be played in a mixer/jam sessions. So ideally I want a piece
that have many movements: so that a violin player can play one movement of
solo, a flute another, a recorder another, a hurdy gurdy, another, etc,
and when they are not playing solo, they will play whatever orchestral
parts they are supposed to play.
Right now it is highly likely I will pick Corrette's op4 #3. His Concerot
Noel Suisse is a bit too difficult for me :/
> Hello,
>
> the easiest music of that kind I know is the "Bauernhochzeit" by Leopold
> Mozart. The hurdy gurdy part is really simple, the only problem I see is
> that one has to find a player (or other solution) for the bagpipe part.
I would love to, but we have no bagpipe player
Plenty of flautists, recorder players, and gambists (viola da gamba).in my
group right now.
--
Vincent B. Ho hbv _at_ tsoft.com
--
Horloge! dieu sinistre, effrayant, impassible
Dont le doigt nous menace et nous dit "Souviens-toi!
Les vibrantes Douleurs dans ton coeur plein d'effroi
Se planteront bientot comme dans une cible;
-- Charles Baudelaire (Spleen et ideal. LXXXV)
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Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 21:31:11 +0000
From: Jim Yeeles <jim.yeeles _at_ btinternet.com>
Subject: [HG] New member introduction
Hello,
After wandering around your archives for a while I think it is high time
I subscribe and introduce myself.
My name is Jim. I live in the south-east of England and am interested in
French dance music which I was first introduced to by various Blowzabella
albums a few years ago. I'm not a player yet but hope to have an
instrument built by UK maker Mike Gilpin in the future.
I have just returned from a holiday in the Auvergne where I didn't
find a lot of live HG music but, quite by chance, found myself staying
within a bike-ride of Pajot's old house in Jenzat "La Maison
du Luthier". So I made sure I visited this and also saw the
collection at the museum in Montlucon. I take my hat off to all you
makers out there.
Anyway, that's enough from me. Does anyone have any advice on what
I can do until I'm in a position to start wrestling with the beast?
Cheers,
Jim
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Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 21:49:30 +0100
From: Frank Vickers <frank _at_ vickhast.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] New member introduction
> Does anyone have any advice on what
> I can do until I?m in a position to start wrestling with the beast?
Hi Jim and list
It is good to see another person from Blighty join the list. There's
not that many.
When do you get your gurdy? Where abouts are you? There's lots of
French music and dance clubs in the UK.
Firstly my advice would be to get along to one or more of them and hone
up your dancing skills. If you want to play for dancers (like
Blowzabella) then it will pay you dividends to learn the dances - get
the rhythms into your body and go with the flow... Cliche or what?
I'm serious on this point though. If you enjoy the dances you'll play
better for it.
Also. Get to some workshops if you can - no gurdy so what! You'll
still learn and possibly get a chance to have a go on some different
gurdies!!!
Do you read music? - if not try to get a grasp of it.
Then you could get hold of some CDs by some other heros of the gurdy,
Gilles Chabenat, The Chavs, Tapage etc...
Or even go to some gigs? Might be a bit harder I don't know of any
coming up in the UK - anyone else know?
Exercise your right arm to develop the muscles for turning the wheel and
the coup. I'm not sure what exercises would be appropriate - you could
join a gym and ask:-)
I seem to have gone from the sublime to the ridiculous. So I'll stop
now.
Cheers
Frank Vickers
Norwich, UK
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Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 00:36:48 +0100
From: Dave Praties <dave _at_ dpraties.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] symphonia
Hi,
AAAAAH! I see, a symphonia is just a symphonie by another
name.Never heard that one. Thanks for putting me right. I'm a bit
disappointed though, thought it was a whole new instrument to
see/drool over/build!
Whilst I'm here though, I recently saw an old drawing of a HG
which seemed to have keywork which came up out of the keybox
lid, much like an autoharp. Any one know this variation? was it ever built
in number, or was it an experiment?
Cheers, Dave.
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Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 20:24:54 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] dictionary description
At 10:03 PM 10/5/01 +0000, you wrote:
>
>Thought readers might like the description I found in a dictionary
>published in the late 1800s including 'words coined during the Great
>War'. Sorry the exact date pages are missing.
>
>'Orig. a stringed musical instrument like a rude violin, sounded by a
>rosined wheel turned by the left hand, the right playing on keys; a
>barrel-organ, or other instrument played with a handle'
>
>Initially I read it thinking well 'rude' is obviously pertaining to rustic
>and completely missed that the instrument described is left handed ! I
>have only ever seen one left handed instrument (at St Chartier designed by
>Boudet for a lad with a hand disability) so to have one as the basis for a
>dictionary definition seems pretty strange to me. were left handed
>versions more common or did the etymologist get it wrong ?
>
>I will post separately a description published in a music book of the same
>period which is also very interesting and shows the perceptions of the time.
>
>Steve
I know that this doesn't have anything to do with the original intent of
this Steve's message, the "left-handed" hurdy-gurdy issue (GREAT post, by
the way, Helmut!), but it does have to do with early definitions - I like
this one...
"Hurdy-gurdy: An obsolete stringed instrument, in which the place
of the bow was taken by a wheel turned by a handle."
They got the instrument right, but I especially love the term, "obsolete,"
and the past tense of the definition. Now if only my computer would stick
to this idea of obsolescence!
Incidentally, that definition comes from "The Little & Ives Complete and
Unabridged Webster Dictionary and Home Reference Library," a book now
thoroughly out of print, so there!
~ Matt
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Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:08:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] dictionary description
--- Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
wrote:
> When people ask, I always tell them that it doesn't
> matter if you are left
> or right handed, because each hand is making a
> complex motion.
>
> Alden
I had to deal with the decision myself, and decided to
go with the conventional setup. Mainly because I
wanted to be able to play any gurdy that fell under my
hand. Besides, a keyboard is a keyboard, is a keyboard
and this one's already back***wards enough as it is. I
have a sense that as I approach the guitar-strum
mentality, the dog is easier to manage, and I might
have a slight advantage with the left hand doing
that... but "right"-handed people with the gift of
dexterity seem to have some difficulty with the
chienage, anyway. My problem is NOT making the rhythm
patterns, my problem is doing it while I'm playing a
melody. That problem would be there no matter which
way the gurdy is pointed.
Can't dodge behind the delusion that yours might be
the only gurdy you'll ever see either: back in the
'70's I made myself a couple of Irish Harps,
principally because nobody seemed to believe there was
such a thing. Now you can't turn around without
tripping over one.
thankewverymuch,
One Very Left-Handed Roy Trotter
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Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 20:08:53 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Bolts and Cranks
Matt said:
>That shoulder bolt looks just like the one I use.
I called it a shoulder bolt last time, which is one of its names, but in
the MSC catalog they are called "stripper bolts".
>A related question, about that handle:
>How do you guys make those things, and how is it treated to make it black?
We get them custom made for us by a Finnish blacksmith, who folds the metal
over multiple times to improve the strength. (Kind of like a samurai sword)
The black color is from a process called "bluing", common in the firearms
industry, and borrowed by others (including our friendly Finn).
Alden
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Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 22:30:16 -0500
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] dictionary description
That definition also appeared verbatim in an old dictionary of music I found
in an antiques store in Bloomington, Indiana (but did not buy).
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Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 08:19:53 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: [HG] Concerto advice needed
--- Vincent Ho <hbv _at_ tsoft.com> wrote:
> Perhaps I did not make myself clear...I am looking
> for pieces of music
> with hurdy gurdy and an orchestra.
> It does not have to be concertos, actually, as long
> as the instrumentation
> has a hurdy gurdy, and a small baroque period
> orchestra.
Simon's suggestion was good.
Another suggestion:
Michel Pignolet de Monteclair, Concerts pour la flute
traversiere avec la basse chiffree (expecially the
3rd)
The so called concertos are actually sort of suites of
many short pieces and are quite easy to play.
There are several part for HG and/or musette, and you
can "arrange" these music in several different ways.
Reprinted by SPES, Florence
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 14:09:27 +0100
From: Nicholas O'Sullivan <nosullivan _at_ stangelascollegesligo.ie>
Subject: RE: [HG] Concerto advice needed
Dear Vincent,
Corrette's Concerto Comique 'La servante au bon tabac' isn't too difficult
and the solo sections can easily be distributed among violin, recorder, flute, hurdy-gurdy etc.
Best regards
Nicholas
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Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 16:51:41 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: [HG] new member - CD source music and artists
I am also in the UK (NW) and without a HG and probably never being able to
afford one and trying to find decent HG CD's is like asking for hen's teeth.
When asking for HG there is usually a remark about the monkey and then the
usual "no, that's a barrel organ, a HG is.....". Would someone be so kind as
to list some artists who play the "real thing" ie French dance music rather
than modern interpretations adapted for the HG (although I have just heard
Trio P Bouffard playing the Beatles........interesting). I could then order
the CD's without all the above or at least look them up.
Up to now, all I have found is one CD of Nigel Eaton!
Thanks in advance,
Colin Hill
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Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 14:34:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vincent Ho <hbv _at_ tsoft.com>
To: "'hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com'" <hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Concerto advice needed
On Tue, 9 Oct 2001, Nicholas O'Sullivan wrote:
> Dear Vincent,
>
> Corrette's Concerto Comique 'La servante au bon tabac' isn't too difficult and the
>solo sections can easily be distributed among violin, recorder, flute, hurdy-gurdy etc.
>
> Best regards
Great suggestions, but I cannot find a copy in the local library :(
--
Vincent B. Ho hbv _at_ tsoft.com
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Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 23:55:58 +0100
From: hurdy.gurdy <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] symphonia
Hi.
I had a guy come to a workshop I was doing at Fylde festival, he had built
something similar .
It worked well, having three chanterelles and sprung tangents to press down
from the keybox lid, typewriter style.The strings were pushed onto the wheel
so only the notes selected sounded.
It was of course very difficult to play gurdy music on it but it did produce
some good
chords.
He said he thought up the idea himself so that's one more proof of the
parallel Universe!
Neil Brook,
hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net
www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk
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Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 16:17:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] new member - CD source music and artists
Colin said:
> Would someone be so kind as
> to list some artists who play the "real thing" ie French dance music rather
> than modern interpretations adapted for the HG (although I have just heard
> Trio P Bouffard playing the Beatles........interesting). I could then order
> the CD's without all the above or at least look them up.
> Up to now, all I have found is one CD of Nigel Eaton!
A good place to start would be the hurdy-gurdy discography:
www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/disc.html. There are a few CD's that aren't on
there yet, but it will give you a good start.
One of the easiest ways to get a great CD collection of "the real thing"
(or almost anything else you want) is to save your pounds up until next
summer, convert them to Euros, and make the pilgrimage to St. Chartier.
The booths there are full of marvelous recordings. Be sure to stop at the
AMTA booth and say hello to Corinne Painnot. ;-)
Alden
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Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 20:32:55 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Bolts and Cranks
>
>The black color is from a process called "bluing", common in the firearms
>industry, and borrowed by others (including our friendly Finn).
I use a similar process (same process, different chemicals?) called,
appropriately enough, "browning," for treating the cranks I make. It's
used by antique (i.e. black powder musket) gun folks to turn gun metal a
nice deep brown color. Not so great for modern instruments, but I like
this look for the traditional ones, especially on walnut or other dark
instruments.
~ Matt
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Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 21:19:47 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Forward from Allan Janus
Colin, the best place to look up HG CDs is on Alden and Cali's site -
they have as complete a discography as you can find anywhere:
http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/disc.html
Allan Janus
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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 09:13:33 +0100
From: Nicholas O'Sullivan <nosullivan _at_ stangelascollegesligo.ie>
Subject: RE: [HG] new member - CD source music and artists
Dear Colin,
There are many good HG CDs on the Auvidis Ethinic label which is
distributed in the UK by Harmonia Mundi ~ so should be easily ordered.
Two suppliers I have found to be very helpful are:
Lindum Records www.aldhund.demon.co.uk
and
ADA Distribution http://members.aol.com/adamailorder/
ADA specialise in traditional music so should be able to assist.
Best regards
Nicholas
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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 08:41:37 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] new member - CD source music and artists
Recordings is a broad topic. I have many. I went crazy for a year. My focus
became other countries' traditions,
and experimental sounds. One of my favorites from the 50 CDs I own is
Rene's, who is one the list.
The CD is "Tiz." Certianly modern. Very pretty. But just to mention that
music goes so very far and wide in its expression.
Classical is one thing, but you had narrowed it to Franch traditional...
There is one classic traditional retrospective CD; historical recordings.
Have you at least tried Dusty Strings?
Best of luck to you,
jim
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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:37:04 +0100
From: geoff oval <geoff _at_ main4.net>
Subject: [HG] Hi - Jim Yeeles
Hi, Jim where abouts are you in the SE of England? I'm in exactly the same
boat as you are - complete novice although Mike Gilpin's made me some great
comp. tapes of trad music which are on in the car all the time, so the tunes
are gradually commiting to memory. I'm happy to help out by duplicating
(sshhhh!) them for you. If you're in the rough region of Essex let me know
maybe we can meet up, Gurdy players in Essex are rarer than a rarity in the
home of Mr and Mrs V. Rare although Simon Haines plays Gurdy in the Hosepipe
band based in Colchester.
Mike's a nice guy and makes great gurdies I'm supposed to be having lessons
with him but.............Hi, Mike sorry I haven't been back in touch but
regrettably business and other stuff got in the way over the past couple of
months! Will be very soon though and you can have your Rosbif tape back!
Hi, Frank Vickers apologies for not getting in contact for a drink when I
was in Norfolk over the Summer but circumstances prevented it - have Xim got
any gigs coming up?
Geoff Oval
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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:51:28 +0100
From: arthur nichols <arthur _at_ anichols.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] New member introduction
Hi Jim
I am replying to you off list as I believe the list gets clogged up with a
lot of traffic which is not of general interest.
I did make a mistake and sent this message to Frank in Norwich.
Welcome to the clan, although I am not really part of it, for some time I
have been a lurker.
I make musical instruments as a hobby but am unable to get the best out of
them because I do not play.
I have a Synfonie which has not yet been set up properly this is a simple
diatonic instrument, also a guitar shaped HG with 23 keys which has reached
the stage of making the tangents, I have lost interest in them and would
consider selling them.
I dont know where you live but if you want to get in touch I am in
Wolverhampton, I am not pushing to sell anything but would be happy to have
you call for a chat.
My land line is 01902 334085
My latest project is a street organ I think I might be able to turn the
handle and get a sound.
I look forward to hearing from you
Arthur Nichols
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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 13:11:41 -0500
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
To: hg hurdygurdy.com <hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com>
Subject: [HG] OT: xylophone
Hi all,
I know this topic is not HG-related, but I think people on this list might
have some idea where I can look for information.
I am trying to find any information on acoustics of wooden materials used in
percussion instruments. In particular I would like to find any information
that gives guidelines on the relationship between size and tone in wooden
xylophone slats.
My interest is in building a *large* balophone-type instrument with gourd
resonators under the tone slats. I want some rough idea of how big to make
the slats for given tones, knowing full well that any indication is only
going to be rough.
If anyone has any ideas, please e-mail me off list.
Thanks,
Arle
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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 19:18:17 +0100
From: arthur nichols <arthur _at_ anichols.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] New member introduction
Sorry folks
I am making a right mess of sending Emails.
I had intended sending a reply to Jim Yeeles off list, because I didnt want
to clog the list with information that might not be of interest to every
one.
As you can see I have suceeded in doing the complete opposite.
Now that I am out of the cupboard I will tell all.
I have been lurking for some time and have busied myself making a couple of
HGs but havnt finished them.
The first a Synphonie which needs proper strings and setting up, and a
guitar based one which uses an actual guitar body.
The Syn. is diatonic with eight keys and the other has 23 keys. I am at the
stage of fitting the tangents on the latter, it has the shaft wheel and dog
working.
As a non player my interest has wained and I have been taken by the street
organ bug.
I enjoy making things and am in continuous trouble because so many
instruments are lying around and not being played.
I intend to remain on the list for the time being as I do enjoy the
interchange.
Arthur Nichols
Wolverhampton UK
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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:37:56 +0100
From: peter.j.hughes _at_ bt.com
Subject: RE: [HG] New member introduction
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arthur nichols [mailto:arthur _at_ anichols.freeserve.co.uk]
> Sorry folks
>
> I am making a right mess of sending Emails.
You're not the only one Arthur. My interesting, informative and helpful
welcoming post to Jim was lost in a PC crash before being sent and time has
only just allowed a re-type. Stick around. It's nice to hear from you.
To summarise:
Jim - where in the south east are you? I'm near Ipswich, so if I can help in
any way let me know.
Geoff - Same question really. Both my self and Paddy Butcher (of R.S.V.P.)
are in south Suffolk - definitely not Essex of course, but possibly not out
of range.
Frank - Hi! Can you let us know what's happening with Pied a Terre? For
various reasons I've had to keep a low profile for the last year and I'm now
feeling rather out of touch.
Best regards to you all,
Peter Hughes
e-mail peter.j.hughes _at_ bt.com
Home 01394 386297
>
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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 10:11:56 +0100
From: "Gunzel, Friederike" <f.gunzel _at_ ic.ac.uk>
To: "'hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com'" <hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com>
Subject: [HG] Players in Scotland?
Dear all,
I just moved from London to Dundee, are there any other players in the area?
I enjoyed Cliff's workshops in Ely, but somebody a bit closer would be nice.
Friederike
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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:18:45 +0300 (EEST)
From: ottilia _at_ saunalahti.fi
Subject: [HG] New Gilles Chabenat cd
Have you all already heard this? The cd's title is "Mouvement Clos" and it's
the year 2000 StChartier programme, if I understood correct. Many of you
certainly were at the concert, but here's the studio work!
And with this recording Gilles definitely (again) updates the concepts of
expressive, modern (or maybe "trans-modern") hg-playing! It's a masterpiece.
Plus: the booklet is a good advertisement for Denis Siorat, so detailed and
clear vielle photos are rarely seen on cd booklets.
Yours,
Esa M�kinen
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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:44:27 -0500
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: [HG] double keyboard HGs
Hi all,
who is currently making HGs with two keyboards?
I am curious about how the second keyboard on double keyboard instruments
works. Is it typically full range (i.e., doubling the main keyboard in its
entire range) or is it normally of an abbreviated range?
I was sent a photo of the prototype for a new "multi-function" model of
French-style HG that has two keyboards: a main melody keyboard with two
strings, and an accompaniment keyboard with one string. The main keyboard
looks like it has a chromatic range of two octaves and the second keyboard
that sits under it has a limited range of what appears to be an octave and a
third (diatonic) and sits under the main keyboard.
These details could be wrong, as I am going off a small-scale picture and
the maker is not currently where I can reach him.
(I am not identifying the maker as I would prefer to let him announce his
new model himself after he is finished testing it and can make definitive
statements, rather than having people believing something based on my
speculation about the instrument.)
Anyway, what is typical for double-keyboard instruments, or is there even
any sort of standard on them?
-Arle
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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 16:10:06 +0100
From: peter.j.hughes _at_ bt.com
Subject: RE: instruments for some time now.
Have a look at http://www.hurdygurdy.farmcom.net/index.html where it's
referred to as a 3 string Pajot.
They're pretty much as you describe, the 2nd keyboard having a single
string, but chromatic up to top B. I have a similar one, but it has a deep
guitar shape body rather than a lute back.
An interesting feature of the construction is the 2nd keyboard tangents
rotate about an axis close to the wheel shaft, thus maintaining good string
to wheel pressure. Overall it works very well and is great fun, though I
don't get nearly enough time to play it!
Nigel Eaton plays one superbly - listen to the Whirling Pope Joan album.
Regards,
Peter Hughes.
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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 08:14:26 -0700
From: Diana O'Neill <dianamark _at_ foxinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] New Gilles Chabenat cd
Where is it available??? !!!
Diana --Seattle, Wa.
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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:40:48 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] double keyboard HGs
Hello,
arle lommel wrote:
> Anyway, what is typical for double-keyboard instruments, or is there even
> any sort of standard on them?
I belive the sample of existing instruments is far to small to
constituate something like a standard.
peter.j.hughes _at_ bt.com wrote:
> Chris Eaton has been making double keyboard instruments for some time now.(...)
> They're pretty much as you describe, the 2nd keyboard having a single
> string, but chromatic up to top B.
on describing Chris Eatons double keyboard, the main hint is that the
second keyboard is similar to a nyckelharpa keyboard:
So all the diatonic and the accidental keys of the "second" keyboard are
in one row and its tangents go through holes in the first "normal hurdy
gurdy" keyboard, like on a nyckelharpa.
I alo saw an instrument by an italian maker ( I can look up the name for
you if you are interested) with two complete hurdy gurdy keyboards too.
To my personal opinion these double keyboards are a very expensive and
complex solution to a problem that can be solved much easier:
The target is to play notes at the same time on the keyboard. I invented
a very simpe solution that can be applied to every ordinary hurdy gurdy
with two or more chanters. I call this setup the "viennese system" and
use it now since about five years:
Just remove the tangents from one of the chanters from (including) the
fifth key ( E on a G-chanter) upwards.
If you now press a key from this point upwards, the string of the
chanter in question is not shortened, so it is possible to play a second
note on this string (in the range from open string to forth accidental
key = Eb on a G-chanter) by pressing a second (lower) key.
To improove this set up put back the tangents a bit on the third and
fourth accidental and the forth diatonic key ( C#, D, Eb on a
G-chanter) for the chanter in question. This helps the open string to
stay free from the tangents (of the pressed key) now combinations like
forth diatonic key and forth accidental key(C-Eb) can be played. It is
usefull to use a lighter string for this "chanter for playing chords",
since this second note should not cover the melody and it is easier to
intonate too.
For obvious reasons, it is a good start to use two chanters with the
same pitch, but this is not the only interesting solution (it is just
easy to loose orientation if two different pitches are used). Chords
with three notes can be produced on all this systems by using a third
quint paralell chanter.
One advantage of the "viennese system" is that is is possible to play a
melody with the index, middle and ring finger and hold a second note
with the pinkie something what is much harder to do on the
double-keyboard version since the distances are bigger (I tried it on
Nigel Eatons instrument).
On the double-keyboard system the combinations of notes played on the
two chanters can be chosen enirely free, on my "viennese system" there
are some limits, some intervals that cannot be played, but it is for
sure the cheaper and more simple solution.
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:16:46 +0100
From: bourgogne _at_ bourgogne.free-online.co.uk
Subject: Re: [HG] new member - CD source music and artists
You might be interested in a recent discussion I had with the ADA people.
They have tried to get AMTA french stuff and were not happy to find they
were being charged trade the same price as I was from an order directly to
the French web site and also the same shipping price. I don't want to take
anything away from ADA who are a really good supplier but in this case I,
(and they I believe) , would suggest you go directly to France, where it is
cheaper and delivery is faster - to the UK anyway. There is a very friendly
web site (in French but pretty intuitive)
http://www.amta.com.fr/fr/index.asp
which I could not resist flashing my credit card at and got a wonderful
delivery in a few days. My order came to more than FF500 (USD75) so they
threw in a free CD as well. It is a great way to access those hard to get
tapes and CDs by Bouffard, Tapage, Chabenat and so on. I even got a
wonderful CD by Maxou (I know you a reading!) on the Vol Du Bourdon - but
would have loved an English transcription to get all the humour.
Steve
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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 20:47:18 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] new member - CD source music and artists
Hello,
bourgogne _at_ bourgogne.free-online.co.uk wrote:
(...) would suggest you go directly to France, where it is
> cheaper and delivery is faster - to the UK anyway.
Talking about mailorder, here is a list of internet links I collected
trying to find one or the other CD in the net (from here in Austria it
is in fact cheaper to order from italy...).
http://www.felmay.it/
http://www.digelius.com/
http://www.qbc.clic.net/~thirtybe/catalogue.html
http://www.rufrecords.com/
http://www.elkarlanean.com/elkarlanean.cfm
http://www.drone.se/english/
http://www.greenlinnet.com/
http://www.diatonie.de/
http://www.spielleute.de/
http://www.keltiamusique.com/
http://www.gwerz.com/disques/index.htm
regards
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:33:57 +0200
From: Stefan Neumeier <Neumeier _at_ landentwicklung-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] double keyboard HGs
Hi all,
Not exactly an HG with two keyboard but another interesting invention. K.
Reichmann built a HG that has two wheels and two keyboards.
Unfortunately I was not able to hear someone play this instrument as I only saw
it during the construction phase.
S. Neumeier
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Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:53:45 +0100
From: Frank Vickers <Frank _at_ vickhast.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] new member - CD source music and artists
Hi I thought I'd throw my thoughts in on this subject
Harmonia Mundi have a very extensive catalogue but do not seem to know
that they sell these things. If you look on my web site
http://xim.org.uk you'll find a page listing a load of good CDs along
with their ref nos (which we told people about at a Towersey workshop).
But getting them out of HM is like extracting blood out of a stone, and
now it turns out they no longer distribute Modal (La Chavs, Bateau Dore
and the new Bouffard CD). So the only place you can get them is the
AMTA web site. The Bouffard CD cost me 193 francs to get. Even
expensive CDs in the UK cost only 150 francs - I would have expected to
pay no more than 130 francs. This is a very expensive way to buy CDs
from the UK.
Modal is now distributed by L'Autre Distribution. I'm trying to contact
them...
I'm seriously thinking of setting myself up as a distributor in the UK
I'm so fed up with the situation!
Motto: If you want something doing - do it yourself!
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Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:27:22 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] double keyboard HGs
Hello,
Stefan Neumeier wrote:
> Not exactly an HG with two keyboard but another interesting invention. K.
> Reichmann built a HG that has two wheels and two keyboards.
> Unfortunately I was not able to hear someone play this instrument as I only saw
> it during the construction phase.
I saw this instrument in St. Chartier and its photo was on the programm
of the lissberg meeting. I tried to make up my mind about this
construction and to me it is mainly a public relations affair.
It is nearly impossible to use both keyboards at once since the
distances are simply to big. On the other hand it could be used for two
alternative tunings in one instrument like on guitar and bass doubleneck
instruments. But there is more than one example that it is possible and
reasonable to build hurdy gurdys with three, four or even five chanters
on one wheel what gives the same possibility. This Reichmann design has
two chanters on each keyboard, so two per wheel. All the problems with
the statics of multistring instruments did not find a new solution, just
the soundboard has another extra slot for the second wheel.
There is some extra transmission for the second wheel which gives us
some extra parts to fail. There are now two wheels to maintain. It is a
very expensive solution to a simple problem.
I am willing to be convert to a beliver if someone can convince me that
all the above mentioned objections are false and this solution turns out
to be the better one.
regards
Simon Wascher
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Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:43:09 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] new member - CD source music and artists
Hello,
As I mentioned http://www.felmay.it/ is a good an cheap distributer:
they sell "Roots 'n Roll" and "Bateau Dor�" for 30000 ITL each, that is
about 9,67 britsh Pounds or 13,97 US Dollars.
regards,
Simon Wascher
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Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 18:02:06 +0100
From: bourgogne _at_ bourgogne.free-online.co.uk
Subject: [HG] Another HG description
I found the description below in 'A History of Music' Stanford and
Forsyth, Macmillan Co, 1925 which I thought you might find interesting.
This part followed a lengthy description of pipe organs. It is
accompanied by a photo of a conventional 6-stringed lute back with carved
head but otherwise basic decoration - wheel cover has a double white line
on the perimeter and the table is edged with white checks. It is a right
handed instrument and shows the trompette adjuster (not mentioned at all
in the text). I can send a scanned picture if required. I cannot say the
description makes the workings of a hurdy gurdy crystal clear (even with
the picture) and you would not say it is impartial writing.... :^)
Steve
Words in italics are as per the text in the book. It reads :
'The only other instruments which made their appearance during the first
millennium of our era were the organistrum and the fiddle; the one, the
ancestor of nothing but the despised hurdy-gurdy; the other, the
forerunner of the violin family.
The organistrum was a mechanically bowed instrument. It consisted of
three heavy gut strings laid parallel to each other in the arc of a
circle over a sound-chest. A wheel of wood, faced perhaps with leather
and well rosined, pressed against all three strings at the same time and
was moved by a crank. A series of movable wooden bridges was used to
"stop" the strings simultaneously, and these bridges were controlled by
means of wooden pin-heads, which projected outside the instrument. The
organistrum was portable and could be placed on the knees of two seated
players. As will be explained later, its obvious use was to play the
octaves, and fifths, which made up the style called organum (footnote 1).
We cannot give an illustration of an organistrum, for no specimens of
that instrument are in existence. But, as a makeshift, and in order to
show the type to which it belonged we shall include a picture of its
descendant, the hurdy-gurdy. This instrument is still common in Europe.
It is heard fairly frequently, even in the streets of London. Observe its
chief points in the illustration. The wheel is inside the wheel-box
(decorated with a double white line). On the extreme left is the
crank-handle that turns the wheel. The low outside strings that pass
through the wheel-box are the drones. Only one of these is in its place
in the photograph - that on the side nearest to the observer. These
strings - usually tuned in fifths - are of course not "stopped".The upper
string running from the tailpiece (on the left) to the peg-head (on the
right) is the one on which the tune is played. Often there are two of
these. The little wooded "stopping" pins - seen in a row at the top of
the illustration - were originally pulled against the string, but are now
pushed by means of wooden finger-pieces on either side. The musical
effect of the instrument is -within its limits - by no means
uninteresting. We may add that the present photograph is taken from a
nineteenth century hurdy-gurdy of French make (footnote 2).'
Footnote 1 - The description is by Odo of Cluny; there are also
illustrations of this instrument extant.
Footnote 2 - The hurdy-gurdy has been favoured with many different names.
In France it is known as Vielle a manivelle, Symphonie- or
Chyfonie-a-roue; in Germany as Leier combined with some such word as
Dreh, Bauern, Rad, Bettler, or Deutsche; in Italy as Lira Tedesca, Lira
Rustica, or Lira Pagana. Schubert's "Leiermann" is of course supposed to
be playing this instrument.
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Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 13:17:53 -0400
From: Bruno Cognyl-Fournier <fournierbru _at_ securenet.net>
Subject: [HG] D. Thonon
For those who were interested in Daniel's email, the one that was
provided to me by someone on this list was correct:
thononda _at_ gamma.aei.ca
Daniel just replied to me, he is on tour in California right now and
will back home Oct. 25
Thank you again.
Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
Montreal
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Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 18:57:46 +0100
From: bourgogne _at_ bourgogne.free-online.co.uk
Subject: Re: [HG] new member - CD source music and artists
Frank - I didn't notice the same price hike since I bought a bunch of CDs at
once so postage was not so significant and as I said I thought I got a good
deal. Bouffs CD is 120F plus postage from the site so obviously the motto is
to buy in bulk rather than one-offs.
ADA reckoned they would only be able to get the CDs at the same price as me
(plus the postage) and would want to make something for doing it as well.
Looks like we need white van man doing a run across the Channel bringing
back lots of copies - all for personal consumption of course. When you live
in the north of the country like me it costs a lot of petrol to save a few
quid on postage.
Steve
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Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:58:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vincent Ho <hbv _at_ tsoft.com>
Subject: [HG] Fingering and technical advice needed
I am working on Corrette's concerto op4#3 right now.
Fingering advice needed:
Two passages I have difficulty dealing with:
1. What kind of fingering should I use if I have a series of sixteenth
notes descending goes from a'-g-f-e-d-c? These are to be played fast.
2. What kind of fingering should I use when dealing with a big skip?
All sixteenth notes, fast: g-c-b-c-b-c, a'-c-b-c-b-c
Technical advice needed:
my g note is "stuck" whenever I pushed it in. Obviously this is a problem
because I will do a lot of fast repeating g notes. The key will not
bounce back. What should I do? Should I start get a file to scraping the
wood?
--
Vincent B. Ho hbv _at_ tsoft.com
--
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Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 21:29:05 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Fingering and technical advice needed
Hello,
Vincent Ho wrote:
> Fingering advice needed:
> 1. What kind of fingering should I use if I have a series of sixteenth
> notes descending goes from a'-g-f-e-d-c? These are to be played fast.
basically, for playing more than four note in a row you have to move
your hand. You move your hand in a moment where the gap in the line
fitts in rhythmically. The note from which you start your jump is played
shorter to win the time for the jump. while you jump with your hand, you
hear the open string.
As I said, it depends a bit on the rhythmical context: In two time make
groupes of four or two notes moving the hand on the beginning or in te
middle of the bar for example. Another help is to move on the g since
there is a g from the open string which covers the gap, sometimes it is
even possible not to play the oktave g completely and just leave the
"space": a'-G-f-e-d-c.
With some time of practicing things like a-b-c-d-e-f-g-a'-g-f-e-d-c-a
can be played smothly. Here an example in abc music notation (
http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc/ ) :
X:1
M:4/4
L:1/4
K:C
A2Bc defg | a2gf edcB | Abcd efga | gfed cBAc ||
B2cd efga | b2ag fedc | Bcde fgab | agfe dcBd ||
"etc."c2 |
there are some more tricks to avoid or hide jumps in certain
constellations of notes but this is the basic method.
> 2. What kind of fingering should I use when dealing with a big skip?
> All sixteenth notes, fast: g-c-b-c-b-c, a'-c-b-c-b-c
The solution is to keep the fingers in place at the keys like when
playing (preparing to play) chords on a piano. It is even possibe to
keep the lowest note pressed. With that the orientation is easier. If I
get your the exaples right my fingering would be:
1-3-4-3-4-1
or: 2-3-4-3-4-2 if there is a trill on the g (maybe better skip the
trill ;-) )
g-c-b-c-b-c
1-3-4-3-4-3 (lets hope there is no trill on the a' :o) )
a'-c-b-c-b-c
Maybe now you can understand why the lenght of the open string for the
chanter should not be to long. On 18th century instruments they
sometimes used 32 cm chanters, I would recomend not to play this music
on chanters longer than 34.5 cm.
>
> Technical advice needed:
> my g note is "stuck" whenever I pushed it in. (...) The key will not
> bounce back. What should I do? Should I start get a file to scraping the
> wood?
First try to apply some graphite lubricant to the key, maybe thats
enough.
If not, take out the key, and look at it in an angle so that you can see
where the wood got pressed and therefore polished a bit more, this is
where you have to scratch of a little. I use a blade of a carpet cutter.
Just remove a thin layer carefully, try to fit the key and so on.
regards
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 08:24:28 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Tessitura
<familiar with the term "tessitura".
In Italian "tessitura" is something like "range.
.........................
I give this letter just out of my head. In humility. I didn't look it up
to see on the internet -- which can be best...
I am not meaning to seem like an expert.
I'll whip off something here.
It means range. It can be combined with another word, for example high range
or high tessitura.
Writer, comosers and orchestrators, use range very deliberately to
achieve degrees
of intensity or resonance
--or lack of those qualities.
Indicating tesitura communicates from the composer to the player a sense or
knowing!
It is as if the composer can say to the bass trombonist, for example, high
tessitura...
" I know that I am placing this
passage up high. I did it knowingly. Don't think I didn't even know that
this is unusual and will give an effect."
Another example might be a resonant range for a singer (mid tessitura.)
The word is rarely seen, but I can see a need since orchestrators and
composers always think range affect or effect.
The chioce of which instrument is used to play a notes or line is governed
very much by the intensity with which
the instrument can play that line. Very low or high on a wind instrument can
have much more edge and each
instrument has its own middle and secondary range,and hence the
attitude of the player when they go to play it.
And the requisite language of classical music is Italian.
................................ jim/maine
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Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 09:45:48 +0100
From: Ruth Bramley <ruthbramley _at_ btinternet.com>
Subject: [HG] Contact for Tapage
I'm trying to contact the French band Tapage, as I am one of the organisers
of Ely Folk Weekend and would like to book them for next year's festival. I
have visited their site and sent them an e-mail from there 3 weeks ago, but
have had no reply. Can anyone help? I saw them at St Chartier and was bowled
over!
Cheers
Ruth
PS. Hi Frank
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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:55:45 +0200
From: Xavier AIME - Site "Vielle � Roue" <hg.vielle _at_ wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: [HG] Contact for Tapage
Hi,
You can contact Tapage and Stephane Durand (hg's player) to
Stephane.DURAND31 _at_ wanadoo.fr
Their web site is : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/tapage/
Xavier AIME
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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:34:43 +0100
From: Frank Vickers <Frank _at_ vickhast.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] New member introduction
Hi List
Reply to Peter but others may be interested in the UK
Pied a Terre carries on, third Tuesday of the month at the Labour Club.
So that means tomorrow 16th is on.
We have dance tuition from Andrew Swaine this month. Next month (15th
Nov) we have some new players from Ely coming to play for us. Maybe
Ruth Bramley would like to fill us in on the details?
Then in December that band Xim play on 18th Dec. That's all the planned
ones. Any suggestions for next year?
Ruth. When will the Ely Festival be in 2002? If it includes 14th July
maybe we could have Tapage for the Tuesday 16th (On Bouge might be
interested in the 15th) I could ask if you want. It would make the
proposition much more likely if we could offer a few gigs.
Frank
Frank Vickers
Norwich, UK
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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:41:07 +0100
From: Frank Vickers <Frank _at_ vickhast.demon.co.uk>
Subject: [HG] French Dance in the UK
Hi Folks
This is not strictly hurdy gurdy and definitely not international.
I'm trying to compile a list of contacts for all the French Dance
Clubs/organisers in the UK. If anyone knows of any please contact me on
the above email. I want to try to establish when they are held, who
organises them, where they happen etc... So that when we get offered an
artist or band maybe we can organise a "tour" or a few gigs for them.
Frank Vickers
Norwich, UK
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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:49:11 +0100
From: Haines/Woollard <kan83 _at_ dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] French Dance in the UK
Hi Frank,
You probably already know about the French dance club at Mistley (near
Manningtree) in Essex.
It's held on the 2nd Tuesday of each month (8-10) at Acorn Village hall:
13th Nov. / 11 Dec. / Bal on Jan. 5th 2002
Contact: Margaret Colyer 01206 542422
and of course:
On y va at Kelsale Village Hall - but then you know about that cos you're
playing there.
Good luck with compiling the list - look forward to seeing it. The word is
spreading.
Best wishes,
Simon Haines (Hosepipe Band)
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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:36:18 +0100
From: Dave Holland <dave _at_ biff.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] French Dance in the UK
On Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 10:41:07AM +0100, Frank Vickers wrote:
> I'm trying to compile a list of contacts for all the French Dance
> Clubs/organisers in the UK.
I'm cc'ing the list for a bit of free publicity. I hope no-one objects!
"Cam-French" meets in Cambridge on the last Wednesday in each
month, 8-10:30pm. I run the mailing list, which lives at
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cam-french
The organiser (ringleader?) is Elizabeth O'Beirne-Ranelagh.
The "where" is a bit tricky. Could you put "no fixed abode"? Recently we
have been in the Centre at St Pauls, Hills Road, Cambridge, but that's
subject to change.
Dancers and musicians of all levels welcome, bring your own alcohol,
squash usually provided, occasionally cake too, etc etc.
Are you going to publish the list on the web, or maybe send it to
Webfeet?
Cheers,
Dave
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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:42:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vincent Ho <hbv _at_ tsoft.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Concerto advice needed
I just received the list of my musicians. There is a viola player.
I suddenly realised that all Corrette's concertos have no viola parts.
I need a new concerto quick...
My instrumentaitons are: flautists, recorder players, string orchestra,
and a harpsichord player.
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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:32:56 -0700
From: Christina Wright <ccwright _at_ halcyon.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Contact for Tapage
Dear Ruth,
As I haven't read a response to your Tapage question yet, I notice
on the back of their cd that their website is
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/tapage and their e-mail contact is Regis Dupuis at
rdupuis _at_ wanadoo.fr.
I hope this helps.
Yours from Seattle,
Chris
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Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:11:41 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: RE: [HG] Concerto advice needed
As far as I know viola (or "string orchestra" )
parts in baroque HG concerts are extremely seldom.
Usually there are several violin parts and bass.
While you can play the solo parts with different
instruments (flutes, recorders, gurdies....) you have
to arrange the "orchestra" part.
Take a look to the score, probably one of the
violin"ripieno" part can be played by a viola and
the string bass can play one octave belov the cello
part.......just forget the "baroque sound".....
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:32:52 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: [HG] Gurdies for sale
A couple of gurdies on e-bay. Anybody know anything about
the maker? Check out
Item # 1474335469
and
Item # 1474335419
Judith Lindenau,CAE, RCE
Executive Vice President
Traverse Area Association of Realtors
www.taar.com
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Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:45:15 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Gurdies for sale
> Item # 1474335419
This is a copy of a Polish Hurdy Gurdy. I assume that it is made by Stefan
Puchaiski since the instruments are listed as being in the Pacific Northwest
area of the U.S. This is where Stefan now lives.
He brought some of his "Lira Korbowa " style Hurdy Gurdys to the Over The
Water Fest in 2000.
And also performed with them at the Seattle Folklife Festival. These
instruments have there own unique sound.
I assume that the other guitar shaped instrument is also made by Stefan.
I assume that Alden and Cali can give you his Telephone number.
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Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:07:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vincent Ho <hbv _at_ tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Gurdies for sale
On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Judith Lindenau wrote:
I like the guitar one, I think I may bid on it.
--
Vincent B. Ho hbv _at_ tsoft.com
--
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Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:29:11 -0700
From: Nathan Roy <imakhy _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Gurdies for sale
Dear list,
Are these prices for real? I can hardly imagine high quality instruments
selling for so little! Would it be wise for me to buy one of these? The
customer comments were all very favorable, but I just can't help feeling a
bit wary of such a deal. Perhaps I should just stick to my own project and
forget about it, but that Polish one does look unique, and would possibly
make a great introduction to left hand technique. Any comments?
Nathan Roy
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Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:25:42 -0400
From: John Roberts <anglo _at_ albany.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Gurdies for sale
You ask: Are these prices for real?
This is a bid, not an asking price. A low minimum starting bid
encourages activity, at least in the mind of the seller, but notice
the very important little red letters "reserve price not yet met."
Only when that message goes away has the instrument reached its
minimum sale price.
John Roberts
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Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:36:44 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Gurdies for sale
Well a few of us have listened to the Polish instruments.
Stefan played them at the OTW festival.
First of all they are diatonic so that the music that you can play on them
is limited. And of course that would limit your left hand technique.
It will have more of a "rustic" sound than some of the other Hurdy Gurdys
that you might have listened to. These instruments are a bit small and do
not have a powerfull sound. I am not sure about the key spacing either. It
might be a bit unique to the instrument, the maker or the original that they
are copied from.
As to the current prices, you will note that the reserve price has not been
met. They will not sell at the current prices that is for sure.
r.t.
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Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:48:15 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Gurdies for sale
Well now that John Roberts has cleared this up......
Are you going to tell us about the great Hurdy Gurdy
that I think that you are going to be selling???
r.t.
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Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:14:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Gurdies for sale
As RT indicated, these are built by Stefan Puchalski.
As to their quality - I'm somewhat biased, admittedly. Stefan is a really
nice guy, and he's done a lot of research in Poland on the tradition of HG
building there. With that said, I have to say that his instruments that
we've seen and played don't come up to our standards of quality. I'd
recommend either of these as an interesting addition to a collection, but
not as a first instrument.
We're familiar with the instrument that the new vielle is patterned after,
and it had its own eccentricities, so it's not clear to me that it was a
good instrument to copy. I'm also not sure of the accuracy of the copy, as
the new vielle is missing a key on the upper row and a key on the lower
row. This is also Stefan's first foray into the field of the French style
dog (or any dog, as far as I know). Your mileage may vary.
Alden F.M. Hackmann darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."
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Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:40:08 -0400
From: John Roberts <anglo _at_ albany.net>
Subject: [HG] Gurdy for sale
R.T. wrote:
>Well now that John Roberts has cleared this up......
>
>Are you going to tell us about the great Hurdy Gurdy
>that I think that you are going to be selling???
>
>r.t.
Well I suppose so. How many hurdy-gurdies can I afford to own? I did
acquire a Chris Eaton Lambert model earlier this year, needing a
somewhat quieter instrument to sing with as well as play tunes on.
So...
I have decided to sell my Jean-Noel Grandchamp luteback. R.T. saw it
when he did a workshop in Boston for the poor deprived east coast
players.
It is here in upstate New York, if anyone is interested please
contact me privately.
I admit it's a hard decision, and R.T. was bugging me that I couldn't
spend the rest of my life "thinking about selling it," it had to be
one way or the other. So now I'm out of the closet, the cat is out of
the bag, the dog is... NO, NO - the dog is right on the trompette
where it's supposed to be!
John Roberts
1605 Lenox Rd.
Schenectady, NY 12308
518-370-4166 anglo _at_ albany.net
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Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:43:23 -0700
From: Fiddlers <mdfiddler _at_ home.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] quite OT: Fanfare Ciocarlia
Does anyone remember this post- and has anyone in the US seen their tour? I
notice that they will be in Portland Oregon on November 2nd, and wonder if
there is local (Portland, Seattle) interest in getting together down there?
Marjorie Fiddler
on 8/13/01 12:48 PM, Simon Wascher wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Since there is not going on much in the moment, I dare to announce
> something quite off topic: I just surfed in the net and saw that one of
> my favorite bands is touring not just in europe, where they are quite
> well known and musicans who see them announced know what to expect, but
> also touring north america, and so I want to tell you out there over the
> water, to watch out for "Fanfare Ciocarlia" the fastest an most
> extraordinary brass band I've ever seen - they are not what you expect
> from a brass band and they are all traditional musicans, no jazz nor
> classical education, no printed nor written arrangements, but real
> cracks in their style.
> You can find their tour data at: http://www.asphalt-tango.de/welcome.htm
> .
>
> Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:05:38 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] quite OT: Fanfare Ciocarlia
Well, it's a long way from Northern Michigan, but I've been listening to
their music...and if I were closer, I would be there in a minute!
they are too much fun!
judith
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Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:45:04 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: [HG] another gurdy for sale
According to John Roberts'
"How many hurdy-gurdies can I
afford to own?"......
After two Lambert copies (I start to make a third one
in 1997 and the "body" is still over a bookshelf,
surrounded by my HG books of course) I decided I
really don't need of loud instruments, so....
I have decided to sell my so called "Herny III" gurdy.
It was made by a HMS kit but I made several
improvements:
- Italian red spruce soundboard
- new banded wheel
- different axle assembly
- detachable crank
- different soundhole
- bells and wistles here and there...
the main features are:
6 strings (2 chanters, 1 trompette, 3 drones)
chromatic keyboard (from g to d' if tuned in "classic"
way).
It plays loud and is in almost perfect shape.....
With tailored hard case.
Please contact me off list
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 14:38:30 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: [HG] Anyone using a Dean Markley pickup?
I just bought a Dean Markley Acoustic Guitar contact pickup. It is the
Artist Transducer model.
It works extreamly well on my Tekero and now I am experamenting on my
other Hurdy Gurdys.
I was woundering if anyone else out there has tried them.
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Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 00:30:34 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Clicking noise
Dear HG List,
I am sharing this problem that Cali and I (and Nina!) experienced, in the
hopes that you can shed some light on it.
Nina sent us a 19th century instrument for restoration and repair. We did
the work, and were very pleased with the results. We replaced the wheel
and shaft with a removable set, and installed new bearings.
Several months after we returned the instrument to her, Nina told us that
it was making an annoying sound every time the wheel was turned. I assumed
that it was a problem with the wheel surface, and took a plane blade and
leather with me when we visited Nina so that we could scrape the wheel.
To make a long story short, we traced the problem to the tail bearing, or
at least something to do with the tail bearing. (This, of course, AFTER
several hours of scraping the wheel.) The noise is a slight "click" or
"thunk", once per revolution of the wheel. At that time, if the tail
bearing was tightened (moved a little closer to the head) the noise went
away. Since then, Nina has reported that the noise has worsened and that
tightening the bearing no longer completely alleviates the problem.
When we had the bearing out, and the shaft out, I looked very closely at
the mating surfaces, and could see no imperfections that might be hitting
each other or such. It's particularly odd that the sound gets better when
the bearing is tightened up - I'd expect the opposite.
We will of course gladly get the instrument back to work on again, but I'm
hoping for some inspiration as to what the problem is, or how we might
address it at a distance. (Nina is on the other coast from us,
unfortunately.) Ideas, anyone?
Alden
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Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 05:49:45 EDT
From: Maxoubbn _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Anyone using a Dean Markley pickup?
Hi,
I use this kind of pickup on my G/C Bleton, it's OK with a Boss enhancer
pedal (ref EH-2).
I used one on my stolen Boudet, but I don't like really the sound it gave
to my D/G HG. Too hard for me to describe in english the sound ("in the
nose" I would say).
Maxou
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Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 22:22:58 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Clicking noise
I am not sure what type of bearing you are using but a little slackness can
cause a sticking and consequent "rise" in the shaft. The fact that it stops
when tightened suggests that there may be too much play or that the shaft is
not true going by similar problems with other mechanical devices. The fact
that is sounds only once per revolution again suggests it may be out of true
perhaps as a result of a sudden jolt (perhaps during delivery). It may be
something you haven't checked as you know it was true when repaired. Are
there steel ball bearings involved - it only takes a very small flat on one
to cause the problems you mention on a bike - once per revolution of the
wheel!
Just a suggestion - and probably way off but at least I tried. Please let us
know what the was problem when it's solved.
Colin Hill
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Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 17:39:26 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Clicking noise
Hi guys!
Alden- it seemed to me, when you guys were "here" last spring toiling over
that thing, that it might have been a knob problem. I sure didn't spend
the time you guys did, but I recall being able to control the noise by
changing my grip on the knob.
That said, though, I wasn't aware that tightening the tail bearing had
alleviated the problem, and I didn't get a chance to look at it when I was
at Nina's last week. Does this ring any bells?
Do you have any knobs ready-made which can be tried before the whole thing
has to be shipped back?
~ Matt
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Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:39:25 -0500
From: Theo Bick <tbick _at_ austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Clicking noise
Alden & Cali,
I think I had this same problem on my Meier HG before you worked on it. I
think it could have been a bit too much end play in the shaft. Like Matthew,
I was able to control it with my grip on the knob (if I pushed the knob
towards the left, or perhaps it was the right, it got better). It was
annoying for me but others didn't seem to notice it.
Theo
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Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 22:18:01 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Clicking noise
Hi Theo!
It sounds to me like you're describing gripping the knob and pushing one
way or the other with your arm to change the sound. It was awhile ago, but
as I recall it, it wasn't even a case of pushing in or out to change the
way the shaft turned in the bearings. All I did to affect the sound on
Nina's instrument is change my grip on the knob, without any other changes
in my arm movement.
Might be an easy thing to try... Of course, I suspect that Cali and Alden
have a better recollection of the situation than I do!
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Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 02:43:58 +0000
From: Madame Colson <colsonvielle _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] re clicking noise
hi all Thanks for all the discussion about my h.g. problem ..... However
the noise is not so much a click as a two note hiccup and after the h.g. has
been played for awhile the sound stops Nina
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Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 14:21:27 +0100
From: Nick Nourse <nick _at_ frogwell.telinco.co.uk>
Hi
This is a request somewhat at a tangent to the core of this list, but it's
worth a try all the same; does any here have any details on hardanger
fiddles, better still, does anyone have a copy of Sverre Sandvik's 'Vi
byggjer hardingfele' (We Build a Hardanger Fiddle) that I might borrow?
Many thanks,
Nick Nourse
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Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 13:59:12 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Re:
Hi Nick ,
Two years ago , my eternal fianc�e , Monique Vandenheule ,
raised hell in Oslo to find this book , now out of print ..
It was found , second hand , at the Tanum books store
39 Karl Johann gt , Oslo , tel. 22 41 11 00
ask Helene , the arts counsellor ,
who kindly called all members of
the "Norsk Antikvarbokhandlerforening "
the association of art and music used books dealers .
Vi byggjer hardingfele
by Sverre Sandvik
Tiden Norsk Forlag ,Oslo 1983
ISBN : 82-10-02357-8
Norsk Antikvarbokhandlerforening
Postboks 3167 - Elisenberg-0208 Oslo
tel : +47 22 44 51 40
http://www.antikvariat.no/historie.htm
http://www.antikvariat.no/Default_en.htm
There was another older edition written in
" Old Norsk " , the 1983 edition is in modern Norwegian.
Good hunt <g>
Henry Boucher & Monique Vandenheule .
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Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 14:08:51 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Hardingfele
Actually , this could be simpler
http://www.hfaa.org/fom/cache/63.html
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Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 15:36:24 -0700
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Re:
Hi Nick,
There is a whole section on building a hardanger fiddle in Irving Sloan's
'Making Musical Instruments' book published by The Bold Strummer, Ltd. in
the USA and Kahn & Averill in the UK
Juan
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Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 21:05:29 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: [HG] Re:
Hello. Your letter about the Hardanger fiddle needed a subject heading.
Also, what details?
There's the internet...
What do I know off the top of my head:
Northside (famous lable here) puts out one feature CD of the instrument,
with a dreadful title, called devil's tune. Very nice CD; easy to order.
It was think 9 strings, with the hardanger.
Seems like 8 can also be true.
Many tunings.
Special terms for the genre/classes of tunes or songs with just that
instrument.
The resonance strings, I was thinking 4 of those 9,
run under the neck or fingerboard--which seems very neat or cool to me. And,
the bridge is much more flat,
affecting the bow's technique coming across the strings. I believe it comes
across and plays much different than a violin.
Norwegian, of course. Must be some sense of rivalry over to the nickelharpa
and also sweden's strong violin tradition.
I have 3 other CDs I think of it. It sounds high in range to me,and I think
a tiny bit higher than a violin.
Everything I've said is certianly not too deep. Pretty common to most of us
I guess.
Why the search for details? Just curious.
.................... good day...
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Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 21:31:58 -0400
From: ben grossman <nostyle _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Ensemble Polaris in Toronto
Hello to you all!
I want to let you know about a rare performance of Ensemble Polaris on
26th October 2001 at 8 pm at Trinity-St. Paul's United Church (427 Bloor
St. West) Toronto.
Tunes from Scandinavia and Canada in a new program of inimitable
arrangements featuring:
Kirk Elliot: violin, mandolin, harp, bagpipe...
Alison Melville: flute, recorder, seljefl�te
Terry McKenna: guitar, bouzouki
Colin Savage: clarinets, recorder
Catherine Keenan: hurdy gurdy
Ben Grossman: percussion
Margaret Gay: 'cello
Admission is $10 ($7 students, seniors, unemployed). Information on
(416) 588 4301.
Thanks for your time - best regards to you all!
ben
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Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:41:39 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] OT: xylophone
----- Original Message -----
From: "arle lommel" <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
To: "hg hurdygurdy.com" <hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 11:11 AM
Subject: [HG] OT: xylophone
> Hi all,
>
> I know this topic is not HG-related, but I think people on this list might
> have some idea where I can look for information.
>
> I am trying to find any information on acoustics of wooden materials used
in
> percussion instruments. In particular I would like to find any information
> that gives guidelines on the relationship between size and tone in wooden
> xylophone slats.
>
> My interest is in building a *large* balophone-type instrument with gourd
> resonators under the tone slats. I want some rough idea of how big to make
> the slats for given tones, knowing full well that any indication is only
> going to be rough.
>
> If anyone has any ideas, please e-mail me off list.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Arle
>
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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:53:11 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: [HG] Clicking noise
--- Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
wrote: >
> Several months after we returned the instrument to
> her, Nina told us that
> it was making an annoying sound every time the wheel
> was turned.
I have seen (heard?) the same problem in several
gurdies (incuded two of mine....) and it's was ALWAYS
a inner bearing play problem.
> The noise is
> a slight "click" or
> "thunk", once per revolution of the wheel. At that
> time, if the tail
> bearing was tightened (moved a little closer to the
> head) the noise went
> away. Since then, Nina has reported that the noise
> has worsened and that
> tightening the bearing no longer completely
> alleviates the problem.
What kind of bearing did you make?
If there is a "large" play between shaft and bearing,
you can't solve the problem by tightening the bearing
("bono" bearing works a little bit better than "usual"
bearing but the problem remains the same).
And now some bits about the noise...
Can you detect it simply turning the wheel WITHOUT the
strings?
Does the noise change with or without the strings?
Does the noise change according to the number of the
strings played?
I had this problem in a Coriani gurdy but I was able
to detect it with big drone playing only (the noise
was a kind of...how can I say?....a banjo string
played by a plectrum covered of marmelade....
> It's particularly odd that the
> sound gets better when
> the bearing is tightened up - I'd expect the
> opposite.
No, it's normal.
Try to move the wheel up and down (not left-right, I
mean) and try to make this in different positions of
the wheel, and try to feel any play (sometimes you can
detect the play just in ONE position of the wheel).
If you can detect a play, the problem is in the
bearing.
I made this during the 2000 festival, and I was able
to solve the problem (maybe was Joan's Minstrel, or
Joan asked me to do that in her friend's gurdy, I
can't remember).
Different gurdies reacts in different manner: I had
something like 0.3 mm of play in a Coriani gurdy, and
it played well (without the big drone....) while my
own Lambert copy made a kind of "automatic boring
trompette" with a little bit of play.
Sometimes the noise changes according to climate
condition...
Matt's and Theo (and others) suggestions are good:
mind the knob too, even if Nina's description of the
noise convinced me it was a bearing problem
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 09:55:15 +0200
From: Stefan Neumeier <Neumeier _at_ landentwicklung-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] Clicking noise
Interesting topic. I experienced the same/ similar problem at one of my hg�s.
It occures only at a specific wheel position
(and it�s right, there is a
verry very very little play if you try to move the wheel up) and only if the
strings are attached to the wheel.
The interesting thing at my hg is that this noise occures at random. That
means there are some days or weeks where
everything sounds ok and then
the noise starts again. Maybe it has to do something with the humidity.
But I would be glad about any hints how to fix this bug.
(Everytime I went to the builder of the hg the noise did not appear of course...)
S. Neumeier
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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:04:09 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Clicking noise
Hello,
to rule out knob related effects, try to turn the wheel - with and
withiout strings, as marcello sugested - by turnig it with your fingers
on the S of the crank, not using the knob.
Also try to move the axle in all directions holding it directly where it
commes out of the instrument to feel eventuall play.
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:40:35 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: [HG] Clicking noise
<Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at> wrote: >
> to rule out knob related effects, try to turn the
> wheel - with and
> withiout strings, as marcello sugested - by turnig
> it with your fingers
> on the S of the crank, not using the knob.
The problem is that you can detect the play in
bearings only by turning the wheel as usual, because
if you turn it slowly (without using the trompette)
you are not going to have any noise, even if your
bearing got lot of play.
> Also try to move the axle in all directions holding
> it directly where it
> commes out of the instrument to feel eventuall play.
In my experience the worst bearing (for the noise, I
mean) is the inner one, and by moving the wheel up and
down you can feel the play in a way you couldn't feel
by moving the exernal part of the axle
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:48:13 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: [HG] Clicking noise
--- Stefan Neumeier
<Neumeier _at_ landentwicklung-muenchen.de> wrote:
> The interesting thing at my hg is that this noise
> occures at random. That means there are some days or
> weeks where
> everything sounds ok and then
> the noise starts again. Maybe it has to do something
> with the humidity.
I think that humidity can change the geometry of the
gurdy in a way that can have influence in "extremely
accurate assembly"...I think my Lambert copy was more
sensible than Coriani just because my axle-bearings
assembly was "too" precise.....
> (Everytime I went to the builder of the hg the noise
> did not appear of course...)
>But I would be glad about any
> hints how to fix this
> bug.
Well...there is a good solution for this.....just be
you own builder :o)
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:54:35 -0700
From: Casey Clapp <fluberian _at_ home.com>
Subject: [HG] books for sale
10/22/01
11:20
Hello to all!
I have two indispensable books for sale in unused condition:
Destrem's (1993)"The Hurdy-Gurdy" ($20 +postage)
Muskett's (1998)" Hurdy-Gurdy Method" ($40 +postage)
Casey Clapp
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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:11:14 -0400
From: Bruno Cognyl-Fournier <fournierbru _at_ securenet.net>
Subject: [HG] Stefan Pulchaski
Can anyone give me some information on Stefan Pulchaski, his
craftsmanship, and any other pertinent information. Our medieval group
won the bid on the Polish Lyra HG on Ebay, although we did not meet the
reserve price (and therefore will not get the H.G). We might be
interested in contacting him order a hurdy Gurdy from him....
You can contact me offlist.
Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
fournierbru _at_ securenet.net
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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 20:34:16 +0100
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: [HG] Re:
Nick Nourse
The construction of a Hardanger fiddle is described in Irving Sloane's book
"Making Musical Instruments"ISBN 0-933224-60-05.
Looks as though it has special music though, as the bridge looks a bit too
flat to bow the strings separately very comfortably.
Sorry to all about this divergence from the hg list but after reading
numerous letters on creaky bearings I think we can be permitted a line
George Swallow
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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:46:25 -0500
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re:
It is not uncommon for fiddles (versus violins) to have flattened bridges to
facilitate playing chordally (either with a drone-type tonality, or with
more complex chordal forms). This is seen in Hungarian folk music and in
quite a few other traditions. The Hardanger is clearly in this tradition, so
there will be "special" music for it, but in some sense classical violin
music with its emphasis on essentially monophonic playing (at least when
considered solo) is the exception and should be termed "special".
One of my many music projects that I haven't yet gotten around to (this one
is somewhere right after my theremin and balophone), is to get an old viola
and fit it with a flat bridge and frets. I am not expecting an amazing
sound, but I was going to create two melody strings, two drones, and add
some sympathetics. I guess I am a little too much into my HG when I am
trying to turn a viola into one!
-Arle
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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:53:22 -0500
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: [HG] Off topic stuff
I don't think you need to apologize for "coloring outside the lines" (so to
speak) George. After all this is a list of hurdy-gurdy players...
-Arle
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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:26:55 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Stefan Pulchaski
May I request that information on this builder be on-list?
Not off list.
I'd love to hear about Polish ideas with the hurdy gurdy.
Hope that is acceptable. Seems very interesting.
thanks,
jim winters
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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 03:46:23 +0000
From: Madame Colson <colsonvielle _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] clicking noise
hi all .... thanks for all the interesting thoughts about my h.g. problem,
Unfortunately at this time I cannot try out these ideas as I have lent the
instrument to a friend who enjoys playing it in spite of it's hiccup. Nina
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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:12:23 +0100
From: Nick Nourse <nick _at_ frogwell.telinco.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: Hardanger
Why the interest Zhenya? I have a potential customer, but no firm detail on
the construction of the instrument, and we certainly did not cover hardanger
fiddles at college.
Unfortunately the chapter in the Irving Sloane book is not that good, and
simply incorrect in places, but it's a start. The book I was enquiring about
might or might not be available from the Hardanger Fiddle Association of
America, but they seem unable or unwilling to reply to simple email requests
about stock availability.
Thanks for the replies all the same.
Nick Nourse
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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:55:25 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: Hardanger
Oh....... I thought that you were going to play one.
I see. You're to build one. A customer meaning they ask you to build one.
Wow.
Neat. Very nice...
I may have had it backwards: Four over and five under. That is the strings,
lower being the resonance ones.
Ok then. Best wishes! And, thanks for your answer.
jim/zhenya
zhenya _at_ prexar.com
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:24:27 -0500
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
To: hg hurdygurdy.com <hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com>
Subject: [HG] solid body electric HG
Hi,
does anyone have any experience with making purely electrical HGs (versus
elctro-acoustic)? Has anyone tried making a solid-body guitar-style
instrument (with a bottom wheel cover)? It seems like a lot of
non-traditional possibilities could be achieved with such an instrument and
that the construction of one might be easier since the body could have the
acoustic properties of a brick and the instrument would still work fine.
Any thoughts?
-Arle
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:49:27 EDT
From: DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] solid body electric HG
Put me in line to order one :-)
Jake Conte
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:07:20 -0400
From: Bruno Cognyl-Fournier <fournierbru _at_ securenet.net>
Subject: [HG] string tension
Still in the process of building my first Chiffonie (Symphonia). Anyone
can tell me what kind of string guauge I should be using (should there
be a lot of tension ?) My string length is going to be around 40 cm (16
inches), I will be tuning the chanterelles in G and the drones in C an
octave apart. I will be using gut, should I have some wound strings too?
If anyone can, I would appreciate the guauges in metric.
Thank you.
Bruno
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:23:07 EDT
From: DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com
Subject: [HG] Question about Ad Vielle Que Pourra
Does anyone know the name of the first track on their Menage a Quatre
recording?
Thank you,
Jake Conte
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:28:14 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] solid body electric HG
Hello,
arle lommel wrote:
> does anyone have any experience with making purely electrical HGs (versus
> elctro-acoustic)? Has anyone tried making a solid-body guitar-style
> instrument (with a bottom wheel cover)?
Alexander Seidler from Graz, Austria makes and sells such instruments
since a few years (He was exhibiting in St.Chartier the last years).
The instrument is well sounding and quite an interesting thing if one
plays under plugged conditions only. It has some extraordinary features
like major changes in the tangent system, the trompette tirant, it has
electro magnetic pickups for all strings. He now developes an
"accoustified" instrument on the basis of the solid body instrument.
Alexander Seidler
workshop:
Schuetzgasse 16/7
A-8020 Graz
private:
Hoellberg 14
A-8151 Hitzendorf
mobile:
+43 [0] 699.10926816
no mail so far.
regards
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:38:13 EDT
From: DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] solid body electric HG
In a message dated 10/24/01 12:25:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at writes:
Alexander Seidler from Graz, Austria makes and sells such
instruments
since a few years
Any idea of cost of such instrument?
Jake Conte
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:52:41 +0200
From: Wenceslao Mart�nez Calonge <wencesmc _at_ interacesso.pt>
Subject: Re: [HG] Question about Ad Vielle Que Pourra
Hello Jake:
the title is ... Menage � quatre (as the whole record). It is depicted
as "suite de Bourr�es � quatre temps suivie d'une polka".
As usual, two (or three) meanings for some song titles.
1. Menage � quatre (D. Thonon)
2. Les bois noirs (P. Imbert)
3. Ar Vestrez Kollet (texte trad./musique A. Leroux)
4. Je ne voulais voir l'oiseau (D. Thonon)
5. La turlutte de la dure lutte (B. Bourque)
6. �a manque pas de celtes (D. Thonon)
7. Ecoutez! les mamans (D. Thonon)
8. Kalamantiano (trad. arrang� par G. Bernard)
9. Petit solo du matin (P. Imbert)
10. La fille du mar�chal de France (texte trad./musique A. Leroux)
11. Cine citt� (D. Thonon)
12. Le cultivateur (B. Bourque)
13. Flamb�e Saint-Marcoise (D. Thonon)
14. Un Fron�as au K�bak (D. Thonon)
15. Ad va que pour elle (G. No�l)/Bransle bas le con bas (D. Thonon)
16. Tarondelle (D. Thonon)
17. Andromad�re (D. Thonon)
Copy, paste, print b-} ...
or Green Linnet/Xenophile XENO 4048 (really nice art work for the box)
Yours,
Wenceslao Mart�nez Calonge
wencesmc _at_ interacesso.pt
http://www.interacesso.pt/web/wencesmc
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:37:46 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Question about Ad Vielle Que Pourra
Believe it or not, the first track is called " M�nage a Quatre "
r.t
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:45:28 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] solid body electric HG
I believe that Brian Tolly ( not Tilly ) who sometimes posts messages to
this list made one back in the 80's without too much success. And Daniel
Thonnon has just finished one, He has named it HGWells. It is a bit
futuristic.
r.t.
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:00:24 EDT
From: Maxoubbn _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] solid body electric HG
Hi,
Jean-Luc BLETON made it, around 1990. It was called "Monodie" : one metal
chanterelle, a new kind of keyboard (working like a piano keyboard), a
solid body, there was a gear to "turn" the axis of the wheel, so the
handling of the instrument was more easy to play standing... A lot of
real inventions, as usual on Jean-Luc's instruments. I've played one one
summer in Saint-Chartier. But people were very shy to try such aa
instrument. I don't know if he is still OK to build the "Monodie". I
don't have pictures of it.
Maxou
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:16:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] string tension
Bruno said:
> Still in the process of building my first Chiffonie (Symphonia). Anyone
> can tell me what kind of string guauge I should be using (should there
> be a lot of tension ?) My string length is going to be around 40 cm (16
> inches), I will be tuning the chanterelles in G and the drones in C an
> octave apart. I will be using gut, should I have some wound strings too?
> If anyone can, I would appreciate the guauges in metric.
The mensur of the chanterelles is longer than usual, so I won't recommend
the usual Savarez BRH94 (0.94 mm gut), as the tension would be way too
high, like 90 N. For g' chanters at 40 cm, I'd recommend a BRH81 (67 N) or
a BRH84 (73 N). These are more normal tensions for the chanter string.
For the c' trompette at 40 cm, a BRH104 (49 N) should be about right.
For the c petit bourdon at 40 cm, use a BFC500 (56 N) or a BFC530 (60 N)
if you want a copper wound string. If you prefer silver wound, use a
BFA482 (54 N) or BFA532 (60 N).
Enjoy!
Alden
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:36:55 EDT
From: DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Question about Ad Vielle Que Pourra
In a message dated 10/24/01 2:59:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
wencesmc _at_ interacesso.pt writes:
the title is ... Menage � quatre (as the whole record). It
is depicted as "suite de Bourr�es � quatre temps suivie d'une
polka".
As usual, two (or three) meanings for some song titles.
Thanks, Wenceslao. So the title of the song is "Menage a quatre?"
Jake Conte
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:45:04 -0400
From: John Roberts <anglo _at_ albany.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] solid body electric HG
R.T. wrote:
>I believe that Brian Tolly ( not Tilly ) who sometimes posts messages to
>this list made one back in the 80's without too much success. And Daniel
>Thonnon has just finished one, He has named it HGWells. It is a bit
>futuristic.
>
>r.t.
>
"Hurdy-Gurdy Wells" I presume?
JR
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:21:01 -0400
From: Bruno Cognyl-Fournier <fournierbru _at_ securenet.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] string tension
What string length would you recommend. I can change my string length. I will
not be putting a trompette. Just 2 chanterelles and two bourdons (pardon me
if I don't use the correct terminology, but I am after all a lute player, not
a hurdy gurdy player). Do I really need to use any wound gut strings? I am
not in the mood of making an order to Savarez, I just spent over 300$ in gut
strings from SOFRACOB but none are wound (I have guauges from .50 mm right
through 2.00 mm).
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:23:05 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] solid body electric HG
The very clever and inovative HG with a piano keyboard is hanging on the
wall gathering sawdust in Jean-Luc's workshop.
r.t.
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 01:21:19 +0200
From: Petra Kuehmichel <Petra.Kuehmichel _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: AW: [HG] solid body electric HG
Hello,
the electric instruments of Alex Seidler are really very fine.
The tangent system is superb: very smoothy and easy playing!
Petra K�hmichel
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From darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu Wed Jul 10 14:52:12 2002
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:23:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Reply-To: hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com
To: hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com
Subject: Re: [HG] string tension
Bruno said:
> What string length would you recommend. I can change my string length.
The chanter length we use is 34.4 cm. There's quite a bit of variation in
the HG world, but I think that 34-36 cm is the length for at least 90% of
instruments. A 0.94 mm is a good string for this length.
>I will
> not be putting a trompette. Just 2 chanterelles and two bourdons (pardon me
> if I don't use the correct terminology, but I am after all a lute player, not
> a hurdy gurdy player).
OK, a c' drone that is not a trompette. The string recommendation is the
same.
>Do I really need to use any wound gut strings? I am
> not in the mood of making an order to Savarez, I just spent over 300$ in gut
> strings from SOFRACOB but none are wound (I have guauges from .50 mm right
> through 2.00 mm).
You can use a solid gut string for the low c bourdon, but I would not
recommend it. The really large strings sound very "plunky", with no life
to them. I think their overtones are not very active, because they are so
much thicker (proportionally) in comparison to their length. A 2.00 mm
would give you a tension of maybe 45 N, which is a little low.
You wouldn't need to order wound strings from Savarez - we carry quite a
variety (though not all of them!).
Alden
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:52:12 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] solid body electric HG
<the electric instruments of Alex Seidler are really very fine.
The tangent system is superb: very smoothy and easy playing!>
The list here is cookin' lately.
Does the above maker show up anywhere in the web?
I can't imagine such an instrument--the look.
Fun topic!
jim
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:56:06 -0700
From: Maria Falasca <mfalasca _at_ worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Gurdy for sale
Hello John,
Any news from the other potential buyer? I await your reply....
BTW, I'm going to be in the Syracuse area for a business trip on Nov. 7. How
close is that to where you are?
Maria
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:58:58 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
To: "hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com" <hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com>
Subject: [HG] Solid body
Here is one
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/xaime/vielle/construc/utopie.html
and another
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/xaime/vielle/construc/utopif.html
Only problem , both instruments are not finished yet ....
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:14:57 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: [HG] solid body and strings
In I980 or 1981 played a solid body electric HG made
by Paolo Coriani (Modena, Italy).
I don't know if he still make it: it was a well
playable instrument but too little and too "electric"
for my habits :o).
About strings, there is a string section in my page,
with some suggestion and a link to a string
calculator.
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:30:19 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: [HG] solid body electric HG
--- arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org> wrote: >
> .... the construction of one might be easier since
> the body could have the
> acoustic properties of a brick and the instrument
> would still work fine.
Are you sure of that? :o)
When I was "young" I had a Gibson Les Paul and a Hondo
II "Les Paul copy", they had the same electric
hardware and they both worked fine but the Gibson
"sounded" far better....
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:28:33 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] string tension
Alden Hackmann wrote:
> The chanter length we use is 34.4 cm. There's quite a bit of variation in
> the HG world, but I think that 34-36 cm is the length for at least 90% of
> instruments.
To my impression there is some standard with 34.5 mm for "normal" HG and
it seems that some makers choosed 36.0 mm for their "alto" instruments.
A 0.94 mm is a good string for this length.
this depend on the construction of the instrument to me 0.94 mm for g'
on 34.5 seems to bee far to strong, I would never recomend more than
0.87 - 0.90 . I myself use 0.76 mm "nylgut" by
http://www.aquilacorde.com/introduzione.htm
> You can use a solid gut string for the low c bourdon, but I would not
> recommend it. The really large strings sound very "plunky", with no life
> to them. I think their overtones are not very active, because they are so
> much thicker (proportionally) in comparison to their length. A 2.00 mm
> would give you a tension of maybe 45 N, which is a little low.
Again I think this depends much on the construction of the instrument, I
use with succsess a blank 1.35 mm high twist (Florentiner) gut from
K�rschner who also makes very special "catline" plain gut strings also
in thick diameters for Viola da Gamba and Violone (up to 6 mm !)
Bernd K�rschner
Obere Waldstra�e 20
65232 Taunusstein-Neuhof
Tel.: 06128 69 10
Fax.: 06128 82 07
regards
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:53:39 +0200
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] string tension
Hello Bruno,
for a string length of 40 cm I would recommend a diameter not more than 0.80 mm
For the c-drone you could use a silver wound-gut cello string in G, the diameter
varies in indications.
Good luck!
Helmut Gotschy
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:53:39 +0200
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: [HG] HG] solid body electric HG
Hi all together,
Since 4 years I am planning and since 4 months I am working on a new electric
hurdy gurdy,. The name is SIRIUS. This also means "star of the dog"
Anything will be far away, many things will be new! Most things are working
already.
I will let you know when it plays and when I have pictures.
Next year in St. Chartier I will present it.
Hold on a while!
Helmut Gotschy
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 10:54:23 +0100
From: Dave Holland <dave _at_ biff.org.uk>
Subject: [HG] message from Ruth
Ruth Bramley and Mike Gilpin in the UK are having problems receiving and
sending to the hurdy-gurdy list, so I'm passing this on...
Dave
----- Forwarded message from Ruth Bramley <ruthbramley _at_ btinternet.com> -----
Many thanks to all of you who helped in my search for Tapage. I have been in
contact with Stephane (in French!!). Unfortunately, because our festival
clashes with St Chartier, they can't do it. Still, it was worth a try.
Thanks for the veiled plug Frank. Yes...new players from Ely...well that's
me, Ferris Jay (pipes, recorders, etc) and Sam Burke (various stringy
things, percussion, etc). It's actually Tues 20th Nov according to my diary,
Frank. I've known Sam and Ferris for a few years, having met at Blowout
festival in Milton Keynes. Ferris came along to Mike York's pipe workshop in
September, (which I organised in conjunction with Cliff's gurdy w/s) and
suggested afterwards that the two of us might play some tunes together. We
got together on the Wed and then gave our first live radio performance on
the following Sunday!!! followed by a spot at Wisbech folk festival! It's
all rather exciting! We don't have a name yet, so for the time being it's
just Sam, Ferris and Ruth, or some such combination.
Loads of new tunes to learn. (I'm sure I'll fit that in somewhere between
rehearsals for a play (Les Liaisons Dangereuses), and 2 pantomimes ... oh,
and a full-time job and family too....)
and
Just to let you know that Mike Gilpin, who has had many mentions here, now
has a website at http://homepages.tesco.net/~mjgilpin/
----- End forwarded message -----
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:09:00 -0400
From: Bruno Cognyl-Fournier <fournierbru _at_ securenet.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] string tension
Thanks for the information Alden,
Also thank you for the offer of selling me Savarez strings, I usually order
directly from them as, even though I live in Canada, am a french citizen and have
an bank account in France, therefore do not get affected by rate exchange
variations, I simply pay in French francs directly out of my account in France.
Still though for a couple of strings it might be worthwile for me to order from
you. What are your prices? I have the Savarez catalogue at home, do I just give
you the reference and check if you have it or not?
Bruno
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Date: 30 Oct 01 13:56:01 +0200
From: Morten Fredberg-Holm <morten _at_ brandtco.dk>
Subject: [HG] Introduction
Hi list
Just a few words of introduction. I am Morten, I'm from Copenhagen, Denmark
and I am at the moment just curious about the Hurdy Gurdy.
I have bought the plans of the Groddalira from Stockholms Musical Museum, and will
start building it in the near future (I have built harps, guitars, basses and bagpipes in the past).
I was properly introduced to the instrument recently from a friend who plays in a
medieval ensemble and was immediately taken with it. Before that I had only seen
it briefly in pictures. At the moment I play the tinwhistle, uilleann pipes and a litte bass guitar.
That's all for now
Morten
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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 06:50:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Introduction
Welcome Morten,
It's good to see everybody but especally another
buider, I was "just curious about the Hurdy Gurdy"
myself and now it's my first love.
--- Morten Fredberg-Holm <morten _at_ brandtco.dk> wrote:
> I have bought the plans of the Groddalira from
> Stockholms Musical Museum...
If it's not too much trouble: Please take a few
pictures, as you build so we can see the pieces and
the finished instrument.
> I play ... a litte bass guitar.
I always thought basses were these great big things;
how do you get the low notes? <g>
<Sorry, I just woke up.>
Roy Trotter, Springtown, Tx, USA
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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:24:43 +0100
From: Melmoth the wanderer <pierre.amadio _at_ libertysurf.fr>
Subject: [HG] pr�sentation
Hi there.
As the tradition needs it, here is some words of pr�sentation.
I m french, living in Paris (nobody's perfect :) ).
I m not what you may call a musician, but i really like tratitionnal
sounds (hurdy gurdy,bagpipe ....) and medieval ones.
I had a try learning the french bag pipe but didnt found enough
energy to work at it seriously. Now, after meeting a guy at st chartier
that rent hurdy gurdy on paris, i have a hurdy gurdy to play with :)
I know i will not have the time to study it as seriously as it should,
but anyway, i like playing and learning at my own pace.
However, i m sure meeting a real player would be very usefull.
So if any of you are located near paris and may give begginer lesson
i would be interested.
Any information about where to hear live traditional music on paris
will be also greatly appr�ciated.
Have a nice day.
Pierre Amadio
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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:07:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Chiara Negro <ghiro_chi _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] pr�sentation
Hi Pierre,
welcome ! You can see at the site Vielle a' roue :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/xaime/vielle.html
very interesting site, and in the page Forum you can
find something !
Ciao from Chiara ( from Italy )
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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:14:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: [HG] Curvature on Lambert copies
How Do?
Even my junk-wood Dewit copy turns out to be too loud
for Irish sessions, so I need a quiter instrument that
I can tune to Bourbonaise. (Because it seems they only
want to play in D and G.)
I'm looking at the Lambert plans (published by
Muskett) and notice a Flat Back. It seems to me it
would look and sound nicer with a curved back, but is
there something I'm over-looking? I think given the
craftsmanship on the examples I've seen, "ease of
construction" is NOT the answer.
If one did curve the back; I *think* the critical
dimension would be the depth at the bridge, but a case
could be argued for several other possibilities - for
example: maintaining the overall volume of the air
chamber. But then, would those specs be appropriate
for playing in D/G?
Now that I've thoroughly confused myself <g>, can
anyone lead me out of this maze? ...or at least offer
a hint?
Thanks,
Roy "Can't Leave Well Enough Alone" Trotter
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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:36:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Curvature on Lambert copies
Dear Roy,
I hope I can shed some light for you. ;-)
Point 1) Almost all the guitar-shaped baroque instruments we've ever seen
have had flat backs, except that I THINK I recall that Marcello's
"Sleeping Beauty" has a little curvature. I'm sure Marcello can tell me
if I remember correctly or not.
Point 2) We started building the Volksgurdy with a curved back as an
experiment a few years ago, so that the back matches the soundboard. We
did it to address some ergonomic issues with the flat back not always
being comfortable, because the edges sometimes dig into the thighs and
stomach. We were pleasantly surprised to find that the tone improved and
the volume increased. If a quieter instrument is what you want, you may
want to stick with the flat back. On the other hand, the change in tone
may be what you're looking for. You can always string it lighter if it's
too loud (up to a point, anyway...) ;-)
If you were to curve the back, I'd recommend keeping the height of the
body at the centerline the same as shown on the plan, and curving the
edges of the back up from that point. (Did that make sense?)
As to what effect all of this will have with respect to the tuning, i.e.
D/G or G/C, I don't have a clear picture yet. We make some adjustments to
the instrument if we intend to tune it in D/G, but any instrument we've
ever switched from G/C to D/G has sounded good, so I'd be interested to
know what others' experience is here.
Alden F.M. Hackmann darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
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